It fluctuates between being covered and not being covered. When we had our son done it wasn't covered, it was like $240, cash only, over the doctors lunch hour.
The same doc who did my son did my brother in law when he was born (he is 13 or 14 now). It was over in about 10 minutes, they walked us through the cleaning and the kid was asleep in about 30 minutes.
Really ?? You did it under the table ? Wow... What happens if he F's up ?
Do you need to pay to have at done at birth in Canada? I wasn't aware of that, but that may be another big reason why the rate is lower in Canada than the US.
This study I found on Wikipedia ( http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi...tract/99/1/138 ) mentions that, in the US, States in which Medicaid covers routine male circumcision (some states cover it still, apparently), the rate can be up to 24% higher than in states where you need to pay to have it done.
Yeah was about $250 IIRC out of pocket, at the time they do it (is it at birth?).
Alberta Health care doesn't cover it, who knows about other provinces.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
I know as of 2009, 32% was the rate for Canada for infants, which is part of a steady decline.
I've seen numbers for EU as low as 5%, while the US, Africa and middle east have high numbers, USA way above every other western nation.
Which is why I'm a bit bothered by the US rates, considering these are not because of religious reasons, simply for aesthetics, which we would never do to a girls genitals, but yet we do it for boys.
I'm wondering if that decreasing number doesn't have anything to do with the cost of the procedure now. I have friends who are having kids and when asked the question they first question they ask back is "how much does it cost now?"
__________________
Thanks to Halifax Drunk for the sweet Avatar
Outside of it being necessary, I think putting an infant child through that kind of pain is extraordinarily cruel, and it could be argued is abusive.
No sedative or anesthetic is administered, so imagine what it would feel like to have a large piece of your skin from an extremely sensitive part of your body lopped off while you were are wide awake with no pain killers.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JimmytheT For This Useful Post:
This is always what I have found odd about this debate.
Those of us that had our hammer mutilated, usually just laugh it off, and shrug our shoulders. It isn't something you are getting back. The one little benefit we get, of easier maintainence and a non cheesy knob, automatically sets all the anteaters off, and they get all butt hurt about it, and start chiming off all these scientific studies, and about how they clean their penis better than anyone, and how it is some sort of crime to circumcise your kid.
Those of us that are circumcised should be the ones mad, not you. Yet we just live with it. We are the victims, not you guys with your hilarious looking windsocks.
Anyway, that brings me to a great joke one of my jewish Aunts told me once....
This is always what I have found odd about this debate.
Those of us that had our hammer mutilated, usually just laugh it off, and shrug our shoulders. It isn't something you are getting back. The one little benefit we get, of easier maintainence and a non cheesy knob, automatically sets all the anteaters off, and they get all butt hurt about it, and start chiming off all these scientific studies, and about how they clean their penis better than anyone, and how it is some sort of crime to circumcise your kid.
Those of us that are circumcised should be the ones mad, not you. Yet we just live with it. We are the victims, not you guys with your hilarious looking windsocks.
Anyway, that brings me to a great joke one of my jewish Aunts told me once....
Why are all jewish men circumcised?
Spoiler!
Because jewish women want 25% off of everything.
Whatever, you just went out and got a Jewish Aunt so you could make the jokes.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
I'm cut, but as I said in my earlier post, I would give my child the choice. I don't have any ill will for it being done, it was just something that was pretty common back then. In the present day for me, I hold no religious views, I'm pretty sure the medical science behind the practice is nominal at best, and I believe that taking a part of my child should should be best left up to him.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to LChoy For This Useful Post:
First off I can't wait for this to get off the first page. My parents didn't do it to me, but our doctor convinced us it would be a good idea 'for health reasons' when I was in grade 2. Hurt like a mother, and got strange get well cards from the school haha. But damn that was painful.
I'm not sure if your a misinformed doctor or not but I'll tell you something thats 100% the truth.
My grandfather-lived 99 years
His brother lived 93 years
My father lived 79 years
One of my father brothers is 83 years and counting
One of my sisters aged 55
And myself (so far 49 years) have all had our gallbladders removed'(yeah,crazy family)
Not only do I not get diarrhea (odd time with the flu but that's it) but I have never heard of one of my family members complain about it.
Sorry man,I call bull##### on this, I can eat nails since my surgery and not even have a burp...best thing that ever happened to me was to get rid of my gallbladder.
You're seriously calling out a doctor as being misinformed because your family doesn't get diarrhea?
My brother in law is a doctor and I can say with absolute confidence that a doctor forgets more in one day than you will ever know in the health field.
I circed both my boys, my first child I just went along with what my husband wanted(his Grandpa paid for it, $100 in 1999 BTW). My second I actually did my research and decided the benefits of circ outweighed the risks(the WHO, Unaids report came out about that time), so I went ahead with it. As a woman I don't really care one way or another sexually/looks speaking so long as they keep it clean, but as a mother I do care and am not daft enough to assume(even though I tell them it is important) my boys will use condoms every time they have sex.
Extreme risks like the OP are actually very rare(far less than 1%), so I do think it should be left up to the parents, or if the parents so desire the child when he is old enough to make the decision for himself. I also do not class the complications as any different then if the doctor was preforming any other medical procedure.. so what ever happens during say a botched removed appendix should also apply to a botched circ.
I don't understand why we can't just let those boys decide themselves when they are older. The WHO report is about aids in africa where its rare to see condom use and they argued correctly that any help to slow the spread of aids is a benefit. Not sure how that helps a 1st world parent feel like its a pro for circ.
For that 1 study that gets quoted a lot btw by parents supporting this unnecessary procedure there is a plethora of studies suggesting its unnecessary, has serious risks albeit low, and has potential complications to how a child grows to handle pain because of the possible early affect on the nervous system this early painful procedure can put on the infant.
We in the west are furious to hear about little baby girls being circumcized in other countries, yet when it comes to boys people make jokes like its no big deal, and not to belittle parents but very few of them do much of any research before making this decision, its just a matter of tradition, religion in the vast majority of cases.
Of course when asked in surveys parents will not answer honestly and say they did it for health/hygiene issues. Like I've said before people find excuses after the fact to feel more justified about having done the procedure rather than admit it may have been an unnecessary thing to begin with.
I'm not calling you parents out or suggesting your bad people, just that its been such a normal thing for so many family's for so long its not something they think much about. Which is slowly changing, your 2 boys will likely not have this done to their own children unless there is religious reasons to do so.
And religious reasons is going away slowly too, if anyone bothered to read the history of the silly reason for this covenant.
Hitchen's reacts badly to a Rabbi joking about the pain of baby boys being made to suffer.
Great quote on youtube:
Quote:
At time 0:20, Rabbi Kushner made the claim that "My son cried more at his first haircut than he did at his bris," to which Hitchens replied, "You weren't doing it right, then." Hitchens was apparently aware that circumcision causes such extreme pain to infants that they frequently fall into a state of "neurogenic shock", which causes them to fall into an apparently "calm" or "sleepy" state that has been misinterpreted throughout history to indicate that circumcision must not be painful.
I think what sums up the irrationality of the pro circumcision crowd is simply this:
You would allow for the removal of a boys foreskin, often for aesthetic reasons, but be outraged if every girl was treated the same way and had their labia cut/removed/modified to "look better". These are the same. Barbaric practice.
I appreciate the baiting (weird word when talking about this I guess) by the "cut" crowd vs the "uncut" and take it in fun...nobody is attacking who you are, or the choices your parents made...but we are truly trying to stop the unnecessary cruelty directed at some poor young boys. If there were ever a medical need or if the boy himself at an appropriate age decided he wanted to be circumcised I'm sure we'd all support the operation.
First off I can't wait for this to get off the first page. My parents didn't do it to me, but our doctor convinced us it would be a good idea 'for health reasons' when I was in grade 2. Hurt like a mother, and got strange get well cards from the school haha. But damn that was painful.
I think what sums up the irrationality of the pro circumcision crowd is simply this:
You would allow for the removal of a boys foreskin, often for aesthetic reasons, but be outraged if every girl was treated the same way and had their labia cut/removed/modified to "look better". These are the same. Barbaric practice.
I appreciate the baiting (weird word when talking about this I guess) by the "cut" crowd vs the "uncut" and take it in fun...nobody is attacking who you are, or the choices your parents made...but we are truly trying to stop the unnecessary cruelty directed at some poor young boys. If there were ever a medical need or if the boy himself at an appropriate age decided he wanted to be circumcised I'm sure we'd all support the operation.
You keep fighting the good fight for the greater good and I will keep being irrational. Deal?
The Following User Says Thank You to Boblobla For This Useful Post:
You're seriously calling out a doctor as being misinformed because your family doesn't get diarrhea?
My brother in law is a doctor and I can say with absolute confidence that a doctor forgets more in one day than you will ever know in the health field.
Well, that doesn't leave me with a sense of confidence in doctors now!
This is always what I have found odd about this debate.
Those of us that had our hammer mutilated, usually just laugh it off, and shrug our shoulders. It isn't something you are getting back. The one little benefit we get, of easier maintainence and a non cheesy knob, automatically sets all the anteaters off, and they get all butt hurt about it, and start chiming off all these scientific studies, and about how they clean their penis better than anyone, and how it is some sort of crime to circumcise your kid.
I think it's because the age demographic of this board is from a time when ant-eaters were outnumbered by toques, and dressing room conversations consisted of telling them they had dumb looking wieners and would never get blown, hence the butt-hurtness. I think it'll be the opposite butt-hurtness in 20 years.
I think it's because the age demographic of this board is from a time when ant-eaters were outnumbered by toques, and dressing room conversations consisted of telling them they had dumb looking wieners and would never get blown, hence the butt-hurtness. I think it'll be the opposite butt-hurtness in 20 years.
Depends where you grew up I guess, but I think you might be right for the most part.
