2011 NCAA football thread

[JayP]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh........So every game doesn't matter?

No joke...the BCS is the joke, has been since it's ill advised inception.

Who is #2 and why do they get it? And here is why its uch a gong show...right now LSU could go out and not even win their own conference, yet be the top seed in the NC game. How's that work anyhow?

How is that? If they are head and shoulders the best, they go and win their way to the title, like every other single sport in the world.

Tell that to a 14-0 Auburn team that never even got in the NC game.

WTF does this have to do with anything in regards to determining a NC team? Just obfuscating the real argument?

Conveniently you ignored my post stating how a playoff would've ruined last night's craziness.

The top 8 today will very likely be:

1) LSU
2) Alabama
3) Arkansas
4) Oklahoma State
5) Virginia Tech
6) Stanford
7) Oregon
8) Oklahoma

You could argue that Boise St. could be in there, but I don't see a 1-loss non-AQ being above Oklahoma or Oregon. So basically in an 8-team playoff all these teams was lose seeding - big deal.

In a 16-team playoff they'd still all be home seeds. Last night wouldn't even have mattered - we'd be talking about how Michigan beat Nebraska and how K-State survived Texas. Instead of great teams, the most important games feature mediocre ones.

I don't love the BCS and there's many problems with it, but simply screaming "PLAYOFFS!" anytime there's issues with the BCS is ridiculously ignorant.

And I really hate statements like "if they really are the best, they'd win in the playoffs too". Like it or not, sports is hugely dependent on luck and it's not as easy as just "finding a way to win". LSU is the best team in the country, but they're only going to beat any of these 1-loss teams maybe 70% of the time. You get one tipped interception, one bad call by the ref at the wrong time, etc. and you're looking at an even game.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by PIMking

LSU is the team that gets screwed the most out of this whole thing. If they beat Arkansas and beat UGA in the SECCG they will most likely play Bama again and have to play an extra game (must win) and beat bama twice to win a title while Bama only had to beat them once to win the title. Even if Bama loses to LSu in the title game they will add it to the 13 that they already claim now.

That's the big problem I have with a rematch.

The better and more deserving team gets a much harder route for nothing. They have to play an extra game against a decent opponent and have to beat Alabama twice when they already beat them on the road.

But after last night there's really no other conceivable options. You gotta feel bad for Wisconsin right now because if one of those last second hail mary's falls short they're the likely opponent for LSU right now.

[nik-]

^ Oklahoma State is going lower than 4 for sure, but your top 3 is right for sure with VT probably at 4.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JayP

Conveniently you ignored my post stating how a playoff would've ruined last night's craziness.

The top 8 today will very likely be:

1) LSU
2) Alabama
3) Arkansas
4) Oklahoma State
5) Virginia Tech
6) Stanford
7) Oregon
8) Oklahoma

You could argue that Boise St. could be in there, but I don't see a 1-loss non-AQ being above Oklahoma or Oregon. So basically in an 8-team playoff all these teams was lose seeding - big deal.

In a 16-team playoff they'd still all be home seeds. Last night wouldn't even have mattered - we'd be talking about how Michigan beat Nebraska and how K-State survived Texas. Instead of great teams, the most important games feature mediocre ones.

I don't love the BCS and there's many problems with it, but simply screaming "PLAYOFFS!" anytime there's issues with the BCS is ridiculously ignorant.

And I really hate statements like "if they really are the best, they'd win in the playoffs too". Like it or not, sports is hugely dependent on luck and it's not as easy as just "finding a way to win". LSU is the best team in the country, but they're only going to beat any of these 1-loss teams maybe 70% of the time. You get one tipped interception, one bad call by the ref at the wrong time, etc. and you're looking at an even game.

A playoff system would do what it does in every other single sport that exists....something no one can refute apparently. Again...how is a system that puts so much emphasis on the regular season allright with putting a team in the NC game that may not (possibly) even win its own conference?

Also, again, who is #2 and why? The whole system is a clusterfata. As much as anything the standings today will be dependant on who was ranked in the pre-season before anyone played a snap! That's as goofy as anything in sports.

As for the ridiculousness of your last paragraph...how does that not apply to the regular season but only to a playoff game? Thats just assinine.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by JayP

And I really hate statements like "if they really are the best, they'd win in the playoffs too". Like it or not, sports is hugely dependent on luck and it's not as easy as just "finding a way to win". LSU is the best team in the country, but they're only going to beat any of these 1-loss teams maybe 70% of the time. You get one tipped interception, one bad call by the ref at the wrong time, etc. and you're looking at an even game.

UM, that's called sports. Damn right they'd only win maybe 70% of the time...this is why we play the games...well at least everyone except college football plays the games.

It's moronic to suggest that the best team during a season of games is the best or the national champion when everyone's schedule is different, demanding schedule or not. there is always doubt.

People have to get out of this archaic state of mind that college football has had it right from the beginning of time...it's a dumb system that's gotten SLIGHTLY less dumb in recent times (the BCS is a step up from deciding things based on a poll...barely).

it sure is boring when VCU or George Mason or Butler or whoever crashes the final four party (not)...are they one of the absolute best in the country...most certainly not, but the beauty of sport and the system is that it allows them to at least have a shot.

THE SYSTEM IS A JOKE, AND THE REGULAR SEASON STILL MEANS NOTHING AND ALWAYS WILL UNLESS THERE IS CHANGE.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Playoffs???!!???!!

http://fcsnow.com/Documents/2011%20bracket.pdf

Can't wait. Will be fun to have something to watch while all the FBS teams have a month to prepare for 50 meaningless games!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A playoff system would do what it does in every other single sport that exists....something no one can refute apparently. Again...how is a system that puts so much emphasis on the regular season allright with putting a team in the NC game that may not (possibly) even win its own conference?

There's good and bad for everything. I think if LSU doesn't win it's conference, it won't get into the NC Game. As others have said, last night was actually bad for LSU cause it has mucked everything up. If #3 Arkansas beats #1 LSU they would have to vault them. Whereas if Arkansas was #6 or #7 that might be a harder argument. LSU will get ranked lower because their loss came last. (That how pollsters usually remember things)

Playoffs happens in all other sports and sometimes can be complete duds. Wildcard teams getting on a hot streak and do something in two weeks what it should take a team 6 months to do. Or we get a winner like Greece! That would kinda suck.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by JayP

Conveniently you ignored my post stating how a playoff would've ruined last night's craziness.

The top 8 today will very likely be:

1) LSU
2) Alabama
3) Arkansas
4) Oklahoma State
5) Virginia Tech
6) Stanford
7) Oregon
8) Oklahoma

You could argue that Boise St. could be in there, but I don't see a 1-loss non-AQ being above Oklahoma or Oregon. So basically in an 8-team playoff all these teams was lose seeding - big deal.

In a 16-team playoff they'd still all be home seeds. Last night wouldn't even have mattered - we'd be talking about how Michigan beat Nebraska and how K-State survived Texas. Instead of great teams, the most important games feature mediocre ones.

I don't love the BCS and there's many problems with it, but simply screaming "PLAYOFFS!" anytime there's issues with the BCS is ridiculously ignorant.

And I really hate statements like "if they really are the best, they'd win in the playoffs too". Like it or not, sports is hugely dependent on luck and it's not as easy as just "finding a way to win". LSU is the best team in the country, but they're only going to beat any of these 1-loss teams maybe 70% of the time. You get one tipped interception, one bad call by the ref at the wrong time, etc. and you're looking at an even game.

If you go by today's ap rankings, last night knocked Oregon out of the top 8 and set up the bedlam Game as the game to decide the last spot, which would be a pretty dramatic ,IMO.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh........So every game doesn't matter?



No joke...the BCS is the joke, has been since it's ill advised inception.



Who is #2 and why do they get it? And here is why its uch a gong show...right now LSU could go out and not even win their own conference, yet be the top seed in the NC game. How's that work anyhow?



How is that? If they are head and shoulders the best, they go and win their way to the title, like every other single sport in the world.



Tell that to a 14-0 Auburn team that never even got in the NC game.



WTF does this have to do with anything in regards to determining a NC team? Just obfuscating the real argument?

As you've proven time and time again on this issue you don't live in reality. Ratings matter. Dollars matter. Until you are able to grasp that you're never going to be capable of presenting a solid argument on the issue.

A playoff would be cool in some ways, but it's not realistic and it all but kills the drama of the regular season. I blew off going out with a bunch of hot girls last night to watch the end of the OU game. That's how much the regular season matters in college football.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by valo403

As you've proven time and time again on this issue you don't live in reality. Ratings matter. Dollars matter. Until you are able to grasp that you're never going to be capable of presenting a solid argument on the issue.

A playoff would be cool in some ways, but it's not realistic and it all but kills the drama of the regular season. I blew off going out with a bunch of hot girls last night to watch the end of the OU game. That's how much the regular season matters in college football.

Could you be anymore pretentious and condescending? I mean really? I "have a grasp" thanks very little.

If you are seriously trying to tell me that somehow a playoff system of games to determine a NC would not compare $$$ wise and ratings wise to a bunch of meaningless bowl games....then whatever you say. Or even better that regular season games would somehow have less viewership because...well, just because.

And my question was wtf does the NCAA BASKETBALL tourney have anything to do with a PO system in football...oh yeah a system ALREADY in place by the same orginization.

[GirlySports]

wow. Basketball and Football are so different.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A playoff system would do what it does in every other single sport that exists....something no one can refute apparently. Again...how is a system that puts so much emphasis on the regular season allright with putting a team in the NC game that may not (possibly) even win its own conference?

Also, again, who is #2 and why? The whole system is a clusterfata. As much as anything the standings today will be dependant on who was ranked in the pre-season before anyone played a snap! That's as goofy as anything in sports.

I don't care to go into this tired debate again.

But back to your original point - your response to last night's craziness was "the BCS is a joke". Except under anything, but a plus one last night wouldn't have been nearly as wild as all that was lost was playoff seeding. Playoffs don't magically make everything better.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

UM, that's called sports. Damn right they'd only win maybe 70% of the time...this is why we play the games...well at least everyone except college football plays the games.

It's moronic to suggest that the best team during a season of games is the best or the national champion when everyone's schedule is different, demanding schedule or not. there is always doubt.

People have to get out of this archaic state of mind that college football has had it right from the beginning of time...it's a dumb system that's gotten SLIGHTLY less dumb in recent times (the BCS is a step up from deciding things based on a poll...barely).

it sure is boring when VCU or George Mason or Butler or whoever crashes the final four party (not)...are they one of the absolute best in the country...most certainly not, but the beauty of sport and the system is that it allows them to at least have a shot.

THE SYSTEM IS A JOKE, AND THE REGULAR SEASON STILL MEANS NOTHING AND ALWAYS WILL UNLESS THERE IS CHANGE.

I agree with everything you said.

That whole point was in response to the garage statement "if LSU is truely the best then they'd just beat everyone in the playoffs too". They're not perfect - play enough games and they'll eventually get knocked off. As you agree, playoffs are essentially a game of sample sizes where crazy things happen and the best team usually doesn't win it all. That's fine and all, but it's ridiculous to claim that whoever wins a playoff is always the best team. Especially in a year like this one where LSU could easily have beaten 3 of the 5 best teams in the country (if they beat Arkansas).

[JayP]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

If you go by today's ap rankings, last night knocked Oregon out of the top 8 and set up the bedlam Game as the game to decide the last spot, which would be a pretty dramatic ,IMO.

If there's an 8 team playoff there's no way the voters let a Houston team who's best win is against UCLA (by four points) ahead of Oregon.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And my question was wtf does the NCAA BASKETBALL tourney have anything to do with a PO system in football...oh yeah a system ALREADY in place by the same orginization.

At the start of September we were all waiting with anticipation for LSU/Oregon and Georgia/Boise St.

The NCAA basketball thread two weeks into the season currently has 9 posts in it.

Absolutely perfect system that football should be copying. No downsides at all to the regular season.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by JayP

At the start of September we were all waiting with anticipation for LSU/Oregon and Georgia/Boise St.

The NCAA basketball thread two weeks into the season currently has 9 posts in it.

Absolutely perfect system that football should be copying. No downsides at all to the regular season.

It has way more to do with how many football fans there are vs basketball and the lack of exposure folks in Calgary have to college basketball.

[GirlySports]

Utah actually has a chance to make the Pac-12 final. They need to beat Colorado while UCLA loses to USC and Cal beats ASU.

In other words, the PAC-12 South is really weak.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

It has way more to do with how many football fans there are vs basketball and the lack of exposure folks in Calgary have to college basketball.

No it doesn't. I live in a basketball hotbed and even in a year without the NBA people aren't talking about NCAA basketball. But there were 15+ guys staring at a tv in a decidedly not sports bar last night to catch the last minutes of a game that not a single person had a real rooting interest in. The very much a sports bar place across the street was jammed with people watching college football. It has nothing to do with people not being exposed and everything to do with the importance the games carry.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by JayP

I agree with everything you said.

That whole point was in response to the garage statement "if LSU is truely the best then they'd just beat everyone in the playoffs too". They're not perfect - play enough games and they'll eventually get knocked off. As you agree, playoffs are essentially a game of sample sizes where crazy things happen and the best team usually doesn't win it all. That's fine and all, but it's ridiculous to claim that whoever wins a playoff is always the best team. Especially in a year like this one where LSU could easily have beaten 3 of the 5 best teams in the country (if they beat Arkansas).

my bad.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by valo403

No it doesn't. I live in a basketball hotbed and even in a year without the NBA people aren't talking about NCAA basketball. But there were 15+ guys staring at a tv in a decidedly not sports bar last night to catch the last minutes of a game that not a single person had a real rooting interest in. The very much a sports bar place across the street was jammed with people watching college football. It has nothing to do with people not being exposed and everything to do with the importance the games carry.

LOL...yeah it has nothing to do with football beiong the most popular sport in the country....nothing at all...its all about because some random game is more important because of no playoff system, otherwise no one would be watching.

Right.