RCMP investigate abuse claims at Alberta Bible college

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

This sort of answers both of you at once so,

When you have the massive level of child abuse in an organization that the Catholic Church has had, in every country, at every level it is openly accepted within the organization, and in fact as the stories a have been revealed certain facts continuely present themselves, when child abusers were revealed the church just moved them to other diocese in thousands of cases, this is an organizational acceptance of abuse.
I agree that they knew it was wrong and unacceptable to outsiders, but within the church it was not punished or censured in any way.

This attitude persists today with the church routinely refusing to co operate with civil authorities attempting to investigate abuse, the only thing that appears to have dawned on church authorities is that they lose alot of money if they allow abusers to continue so they now tend to still hide abusers (shipping them off to other countries) but they do tend to keep them away from further children.

Ignoring the problem wasn't just a Catholic solution; It was a problem through out society. Residentual schools and orphanages just happened to be perfect hunting grounds. There is a reason why the courts are allowing victims to charge people decades later.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Ignoring the problem wasn't just a Catholic solution; It was a problem through out society. Residentual schools and orphanages just happened to be perfect hunting grounds. There is a reason why the courts are allowing victims to charge people decades later.

I would agree, that said the catholic church seems to have been particularly obstinate in their refusal to confront their organizational problems.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would agree, that said the catholic church seems to have been particularly obstinate in their refusal to confront their organizational problems.

Just to reiterate, the Bible College that this thread is about isn't even associated with the Catholic Church. I know that you didn't start the derailment, but the thread is nonetheless, derailed now.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would agree, that said the catholic church seems to have been particularly obstinate in their refusal to confront their organizational problems.

Yes it has been a problem and certainly part of that is the money involved. Probably another part would be the age of the organization. That perfect hunting grounds has been around for centuries and pedephiles have probably held very high positions within the church.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just to reiterate, the Bible College that this thread is about isn't even associated with the Catholic Church. I know that you didn't start the derailment, but the thread is nonetheless, derailed now.

OK on topic: Does this college have a grade school or nursery or something? Who all could have been affected by this?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

No, just the only section where it's more or less openly accepted.

Huh? What a dumb remark.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Second time this year that a headline saying "Alberta Bible College" to mean a Bible college in Alberta, but it wasn't referring to the college actually called "Alberta Bible College" which is on Northmount Drive in NW Calgary.

As to the allegations, horrible if true.

Can we not use Alberta Bible College unless it's about THE Alberta Bible College? It's too confusing.

Terrible allegations if true.

[redforever]

People should be focusing on the fact that sexual abuse is wrong period, no matter where it presents itself. And as I said before, it presents itself in every facet of society.

When you get side tracked and concentrate only on one segment where it was or is prominent, such as religious organizations, you can lose focus and put too much emphasis on that facet only... and that can cause sexual predators to look elsewhere for their victims.

Also keep in mind that the alleged sexual abuse in this instance was some 35 years ago. While we would like to think times were not different then, they were. I am not saying that times were different in that sexual abuse was accepted then...far from it. I am saying that sexual abuse was hidden and the victims were too afraid and too ashamed to come forward.

Today's society realizes that approach is wrong and more support is given to victims. That is where the focus should be...support to the victims and getting the scum off the streets.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would agree, that said the catholic church seems to have been particularly obstinate in their refusal to confront their organizational problems.

High ranking people in Penn State kept the whole child molesting scandal secret for how long? And after it was revealed, how much of a public backlash did they need to fire the head coach?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

High ranking people in Penn State kept the whole child molesting scandal secret for how long? And after it was revealed, how much of a public backlash did they need to fire the head coach?

Not sure what your point is here to be frank, Penn State, while a horrible situation, is one pederast being covered up after abusing a few dozen to a few hundred kids by a college that was obviously worried about its affect on the bottem line.

The Catholic church had for decades taken no action at all, then covered up for the crimes of thousands of pederasts who's victims likely number into the millions all over the world.
As a church it not only didnt do anything, but appeared to condone sexual abuse by continuing to give known abusers access to children.

[Thor]

I find it funny that people assume the Catholic church has only recently discovered child abuse this last century and has covered it up only recently. They've been doing this since their inception, its only the last century people have not been afraid to lose their lives over coming out and accusing church officials.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Thor

I find it funny that people assume the Catholic church has only recently discovered child abuse this last century and has covered it up only recently. They've been doing this since their inception, its only the last century people have not been afraid to lose their lives over coming out and accusing church officials.

Our whole society including all religious institutions have ignored child sexual abuse until very recently.

This thread is about the Prairie Bible Institute.

It sounds like the current administration is openly cooperating with police. So far one person has come forward with something that happened approx. 35 years ago. One thing that isn't clear is if we are talking about child abuse or sexual misconduct by instructors against adult students. From what I've gathered it is a college so I'm not sure if children were involved.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Huh? What a dumb remark.

I'll bite.

Go for it. Give me a religious tirade on the benefits it provides. The moral values it teaches through childish, unbelievable stories.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm just sick of this garbage.

Religion is toxic and permeates into every facet of our society. It creates conflict, gives shelter to criminals (see: OP) and needs to go away.

The sooner this happens, the better.

But I'm obviously wrong because millions of weak-minded people will get up in the morning, put on their suits and go to their weekly meeting places where they pretend to convince each other they're perfect.

I realize this is getting away from the original discussion somewhat - but the argument that 'not everyone in the church is a pedophile' is a complete cop out. Guilty by association.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I'll bite.

Go for it. Give me a religious tirade on the benefits it provides. The moral values it teaches through childish, unbelievable stories.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm just sick of this garbage.

Religion is toxic and permeates into every facet of our society. It creates conflict, gives shelter to criminals (see: OP) and needs to go away.

The sooner this happens, the better.

But I'm obviously wrong because millions of weak-minded people will get up in the morning, put on their suits and go to their weekly meeting places where they pretend to convince each other they're perfect.

I realize this is getting away from the original discussion somewhat - but the argument that 'not everyone in the church is a pedophile' is a complete cop out. Guilty by association.

Nothing of the above is relevant. You suggested that pedophilia is openly accepted by the religious community. That's absurd, and insulting.

[longsuffering]

Additional details are coming out.

The school is now under investigation by the RCMP after a former student came forward claiming she and dozens of other children were abused by staff as far back as the 1950s, and as recently as five years ago.

Linda Fossen, 53, filed a complaint with RCMP this week alleging years of sexual abuse at the hands of her father, a student and part-time employee at the school at the time. A second victim has since come forward to the school principal, Mark Maxwell.

She says administrators at the time — eager to keep the institute’s polished image clean — covered up years of sadistic abuse, dismissed allegations of sexual assault and kept a known pedophile on staff.

And, she claims, deference to the school’s succession of admired, authoritarian leaders allowed it to happen.

Fossen believed herself to be the only person to suffer such abuse at the school. She kept her father’s secret until 2001, when she began to deal with her childhood abuse. She confronted her father, who she said confessed to the abuse.

Then, in 2006, she said her PBI high school class contacted her about a reunion.

“I revealed to them that I had been abused and, one by one, kids in my class contacted me and said: ‘I was, too.’ I was just stunned,” she said. “I had no idea that any other child had suffered like this.”

Two years later, her book on the abuse she suffered was published. Since then, she said she’s heard from more than 80 classmates.

“You cannot believe the pain that I have heard. Girls that have been going through shock treatments, locked down in psych wards, coat hanger abortions because she was carrying her father’s child. One girl, whose dad was a Bible teacher, beat his kids and wife with rebar. Almost every single day, she got beat with rebar. I could never understand why that girl wore long sleeves and high collars.”

In 2009, she sent a letter to Ted Rendall, chancellor emeritus of the school, along with letters detailing individual stories.


“I must say immediately that I was disappointed in the extreme language used by you,” he wrote. “First you should make a careful study of what the Scriptures teach concerning dealing with matters such as you have raised.”

One of the verses, advising God’s children on how to handle sin in the church reads: “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”

More sordid details

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Not sure what your point is here to be frank, Penn State, while a horrible situation, is one pederast being covered up after abusing a few dozen to a few hundred kids by a college that was obviously worried about its affect on the bottem line.

The Catholic church had for decades taken no action at all, then covered up for the crimes of thousands of pederasts who's victims likely number into the millions all over the world.
As a church it not only didnt do anything, but appeared to condone sexual abuse by continuing to give known abusers access to children.

Point is that sexual abuse happens in all facets of society, and is often covered up for many years. Just like it was at Penn State.

[killer_carlson]

I almost got in a scrap a last week when someone had another go at Catholic abuse, despite being part of another denomination with its own sexual problems, boy scouts and the RCMP. If you're not prepared to look at the organizations that you are involved with, then shut the ___ up about the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church isn't the only institution with this terrible problem and slowly, very slowly, it is coming to grips with it because in large part of the opinions of its members that abuse is completely unacceptable.

Unfortunately, the anti-catholics will jump on this one (as they have in this thread) and will blame Catholicism for this tragedy as well.

[Zee]

Perverts are often attracted to positions of religious authority due to a couple of reasons. First, it provides a front for them, due to their facade of being a pious person. Second, it gives them power over their victims. There is almost no better place for a sicko to hide than behind a veil of piousness and religious authority.

Some of the best people I have met appear to be outwardly secular, but are deeply spiritual, whether they are Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim or what ever, si I don;t think you can blame religion as a philosophy. Religious institutions on the other hand, they are fair game when they allow these things to fester.

[Cheese]

Comparing these types of assault to other facets of society are simply ludicrous. Religion in it's purest form is supposedly there to protect the weak, give guidance, and continually preaches against the evils of abuse, in any form. I never heard any preaching of this type while playing on football or hockey teams or any other facet of society.


Eph. 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Colossians 3:12,13 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Matthew 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I almost got in a scrap a last week when someone had another go at Catholic abuse, despite being part of another denomination with its own sexual problems, boy scouts and the RCMP. If you're not prepared to look at the organizations that you are involved with, then shut the ___ up about the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church isn't the only institution with this terrible problem and slowly, very slowly, it is coming to grips with it because in large part of the opinions of its members that abuse is completely unacceptable.

Unfortunately, the anti-catholics will jump on this one (as they have in this thread) and will blame Catholicism for this tragedy as well.

This is not a problem restricted to the Catholic church by any means and I wouldn't ever suggest that, the catholic church has proved to be particularly unresponsive and its shear size and close ties to the authorities have made it more ripe for problems, it was/is a more exploitable church for abusers if you will.

The unresponsivness is a facet of the church's response to the reformation, and doesn't just apply to sexual abuse, the church is glacially slow to respond to anything, unfortunatly for the church it has ill served them in this matter.