#occupy<insertlocalehere>

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Typically, when I talk to other activists, we talk about the disparity of net worth, rather than yearly income. And I think that is where the gross inequality lies.

I don't know where the line is in Canada. However, I can state that the 62 Canadian billionaires in Canada own 1/6th of the country's net worth. We're talking the Weston's, Arthur Irving, David Thomson, Frank Sobey, Edward Rogers III, etc.. That puts a sixth of the country's wealth in the hands of .00002% of the people. I don't care how hard they work - and most of them hardly work at all - they inherited most of that money and have others do the hard work for them - there is no way that so much money should be concentrated in the hands of so few.

Why shouldn't these people keep the wealth their families have worked so hard to attain? Why can't the families pass down wealth to their children? Isn't that one of the main reasons to accumulate wealth? Are you suggesting that because the current generation didn't earn all of the current wealth that they should not be born into it? Where would be the incentive to earn more money if you can't pass it down to your children?

I wish I was born into a family like the ones you have mentioned. I wasn't, but instead of getting angry at those families, I decided to work hard, use my talents and try to build my own empire. My company is owned by a wealthy family. At no point did I think I was entitled to any of their money. They have built it over many years and have taken all of the risk in order to do it. I am grateful they pay my salary and are allowing me to have the same opportunity they achieved.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by macker

Socialism in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.

Meh. Sweden was run be socialist parties for a long time, and they have one of the highest standards of living in the world. It's not always a failure.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

A post by Hoz, thanked by Calgaryborn.

Can't think of a post I'd be interested in less.

If mikey_the_redneck decides to thank it too, I think the universe would explode from hate.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Why shouldn't these people keep the wealth their families have worked so hard to attain? Why can't the families pass down wealth to their children?

There's something to be said for people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett who are donating almost all of their wealth to charity instead of giving it to their children. Buffett once said (paraphrasing), "I want my children to have enough money that they can afford to do anything; I don't want them to have so much money that they can afford to do nothing."

I also read a story about Yu Pengnian, a billionaire philanthropist in China, who is giving away his entire fortune. When asked why he wasn't leaving anything to his children, he replied, “If my children are competent, they don’t need my money. If they’re not, leaving them a lot of money is only doing them harm.”

Isn't that one of the main reasons to accumulate wealth? Are you suggesting that because the current generation didn't earn all of the current wealth that they should not be born into it? Where would be the incentive to earn more money if you can't pass it down to your children?

My wife and I are never having children. Are you saying that we have no incentive to accumulate wealth since we'll have no offspring to leave it to?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

There's something to be said for people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett who are donating almost all of their wealth to charity instead of giving it to their children. Buffett once said (paraphrasing), "I want my children to have enough money that they can afford to do anything; I don't want them to have so much money that they can afford to do nothing."

I also read a story about Yu Pengnian, a billionaire philanthropist in China, who is giving away his entire fortune. When asked why he wasn't leaving anything to his children, he replied, “If my children are competent, they don’t need my money. If they’re not, leaving them a lot of money is only doing them harm.”



My wife and I are never having children. Are you saying that we have no incentive to accumulate wealth since we'll have no offspring to leave it to?

As someone who is also not having children, I understand where you are coming from. My girlfriend is Chinese and their family's philosophy is about passing down wealth to the next generation. We will likely be leaving our assets to her sister's children/grandchildren. There definitely is incentive to make their lives better and give them more opportunities than we had, so my original line doesn't hold up as strong as it did in my head.

My wording was not as clear as I wanted it to be. I was referring to the families that do want to leave it to their direct children. I was trying to infer that I can see some people not wanting to earn or accumulate as much if they aren't allowed to pass it down. Obviously, as you have pointed out, there are other things you can do with it.

I still stand by my main point that if a family wants to keep the wealth in the family and continue to grow that each generation, they have the right to do so. I encourage them to do so. I, nor any other person, should be able to tell them what to do with their wealth. No person is entitled to another family's wealth, just because the current generation didn't directly earn it.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

There's something to be said for people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett who are donating almost all of their wealth to charity instead of giving it to their children. Buffett once said (paraphrasing), "I want my children to have enough money that they can afford to do anything; I don't want them to have so much money that they can afford to do nothing."

I also read a story about Yu Pengnian, a billionaire philanthropist in China, who is giving away his entire fortune. When asked why he wasn't leaving anything to his children, he replied, “If my children are competent, they don’t need my money. If they’re not, leaving them a lot of money is only doing them harm.”



My wife and I are never having children. Are you saying that we have no incentive to accumulate wealth since we'll have no offspring to leave it to?

That's great for Buffet, Gates and Yu, but that's a personal choice. I have no interest in government being able to dictate that my, or anyone else's, personal fortune should be distributed to anyone besides those of my choosing. That's one of the most egregious cases of over reaching I can think of.

And passing on wealth to children is but one of many motivating factors, you know that. However, the fact remains that if my fortune was to be redistributed by the government upon my death I'd lose a great deal of motivation to do anything. Why work anymore when all of your gains are simply going to be taken away?

If you want to tax people on earnings, fine, tax away. What you're talking about here is wealth redistribution on a Soviet scale.

[Muta]

I knew waaaay too many people in the business school at the U of C who were sons and daughters of oil and gas tycoons and other wealthy people. Lots of them weren't there on their own accord, mommy and daddy sent them there so in order to jump immediately into the family business or industry. If you've ever wanted to see a student drive a BMW or Mercedes to school, go hang out at Haskayne for a day.

I had many of these people in my group projects, and for the most part, I always ended up doing more than my fair share of the work. I didn't mind it actually, because I was just gaining more from it than they probably were anyways.

Wealth is passed down from one generation to the next, but I really do not think, as a whole, it serves the best collective long-term interests of the individual. A work ethic and an intellect allowing the individual to accumulate that wealth on their own is far, far more valuable. When the money runs out, you've gotta rely on your skills.

[MarchHare]

What you're talking about here is wealth redistribution on a Soviet scale.

How exactly did you draw that conclusion from my post? I said nothing of the sort.

[Ozy_Flame]

Trust fund babies are socially warped. That is all.

[woob]

Reporters Say Police Denied Access to Protest Site

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

How exactly did you draw that conclusion from my post? I said nothing of the sort.

Perhaps I'm running too far with your words, but the general premise I get is that wealthy families should be forced to relinquish that wealth, or at least have their options for distributing it be limited.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by woob

Reporters Say Police Denied Access to Protest Site

Regardless of how you feel about the Occupy protesters, nobody should be in favour of media suppression and censorship. Assuming this story is true (I'll reserve judgement for now until I see it confirmed from multiple sources), this is something you'd expect to see in an oppressive dictatorship, not a Western democracy.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by woob

Reporters Say Police Denied Access to Protest Site

Well it sort of defeats the purpose of clearing an area if all you have to say is "I'm press" to be allowed to stay in the area doesn't it? I can't say I'm really familiar with how this usually works, I just can't see how it's all that different than creating a boundary around any sort of police scene.

[woob]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well it sort of defeats the purpose of clearing an area if all you have to say is "I'm press" to be allowed to stay in the area doesn't it? I can't say I'm really familiar with how this usually works, I just can't see how it's all that different than creating a boundary around any sort of police scene.

Usually, true press have some kind of identification such as a press pass. It may have been easier for NYPD to deny all press due to the difficulty of verifying the legitimacy of press passes, but reading that all press was not allowed even remotely close to the events which were taking place is a bit odd. You'd think if they were ok with transparency of their actions, they would grant one press outfit access to the site to record as the events as they unfolded, providing protection to that press outfit for their safety.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by woob

Usually, true press have some kind of identification such as a press pass. It may have been easier for NYPD to deny all press due to the difficulty of verifying the legitimacy of press passes, but reading that all press was not allowed even remotely close to the events which were taking place is a bit odd. You'd think if they were ok with transparency of their actions, they would grant one press outfit access to the site to record as the events as they unfolded, providing protection to that press outfit for their safety.

Good thing there is YouTube to capture any wrong-doings by the cops, which I'm almost certain there will be hostile moments in the 'removal' process.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Good thing there is YouTube to capture any wrong-doings by the cops, which I'm almost certain there will be hostile moments in the 'removal' process.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ga...113/story.html

There's a link to some pictures. Clearly, tensions ar high.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by valo403

Perhaps I'm running too far with your words, but the general premise I get is that wealthy families should be forced to relinquish that wealth, or at least have their options for distributing it be limited.

You are indeed inferring far too much from my post. I said nothing about forcing people to relinquish their wealth. I only expressed admiration for people of means who choose to use their fortunes to better society (e.g. by joining The Giving Pledge) rather than leaving their children large sums of money.

My parents are part of "the 1%", but I have already told them I don't want to inherit their money. They made many sacrifices for me and my sister when we were children. Most importantly, they took an active interest in our schooling and extra-curricular activities, ensured we had the opportunity to receive a post-secondary education, and taught us the values and morals we'd need to be productive and successful as adults. That is the greatest gift they could ever give to us. In turn, I want them to be able to use their savings to enjoy their senior years however they'd like and/or donate their wealth to a charitable cause that is meaningful to them.

I have little respect for people who live off the fortunes of previous generations rather than making their own success from the opportunities that have been given to them.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You are indeed inferring far too much from my post. I said nothing about forcing people to relinquish their wealth. I only expressed admiration for people of means who choose to use their fortunes to better society (e.g. by joining The Giving Pledge) rather than leaving their children large sums of money.

My parents are part of "the 1%", but I have already told them I don't want to inherit their money. They made many sacrifices for me and my sister when we were children. Most importantly, they took an active interest in our schooling and extra-curricular activities, ensured we had the opportunity to receive a post-secondary education, and taught us the values and morals we'd need to be productive and successful as adults. That is the greatest gift they could ever give to us. In turn, I want them to be able to use their savings to enjoy their senior years however they'd like and/or donate their wealth to a charitable cause that is meaningful to them.

I have little respect for people who live off the fortunes of previous generations rather than making their own success from the opportunities that have been given to them.

Sorry for running with your words. Sounds like your parents did a pretty good job.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by valo403

Sorry for running with your words. Sounds like your parents did a pretty good job.

Thank you. And yes, they did.

[squiggs96]

I wish my parents did a good job. I'm awful.