Penn State football officials implicated in covering up on campus child rape by coach

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Again, I'd be willing to be that nearly all of that 25% would agree that he should have been fired if he knew what was happening. They probably (like me), just think Paterno deserved a chance to tell his side of the story before we jump to conclusions about the holes and ambiguities in the grand jury report.


We don't know if Paterno knew about the '98 investigation. We don't know what McQueary told Paterno. We can all make assumptions about those things, but I'd like to think that my fate wouldn't be put in the hands of an assumption-making mob after four decades of service. That's why I voted "no" on that CNN survey, but if you want to assume that's it's because Ameicans care more about football than child molestation, well, I guess I can't stop you.

I can't speak to Pennsylvania but as a child care worker in BC I can say that Paterno would have been arrested for endangering a child on the strength of what we know already, if you know a child is being molested you have a legal obligation to go to the authorities, telling your superior only covers you if they then take action.

You can't hide behind that ten years later if you are aware the pedo is still running a childrens charity and taking little boys on holiday, it is no excuse, I have no sympathy for him what so ever, he is directly responsible for allowing boys to be raped.

[gargamel]

Did you even read my post? We don't know that Paterno knew that Sandusky was a pedophile. You might assume it by filling in the ambiguities in the report, but we don't know it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Did you even read my post? We don't know that Paterno knew that Sandusky was a pedophile. You might assume it by filling in the ambiguities in the report, but we don't know it.

You don't have to know someone is a pedophile to have a legal obligation to protect children, you just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect abuse, and that is for Joe Public, Paterno is an educator which brings with it an increased obligation here.

Paterno reported the incident to his superior, he therefore had reasonable grounds, up here that doesn't absolve you of your legal obligation.

[fundmark19]

I am really only going off of what I see on espn/internet and Mike and Mike in morning show, and their guest who I guess all mostly Pen alum so far. I am just not getting a lynch mob vibe that I feel is warranted for this situation


Paterno said to Grand Jury he was told Sandusky was in the shower with a boy and their may have been in appropriate touching or hugging or horseplay he can't remember what was said. Isn't that enough to raise red flags for 99 percent of humans?

A GROWN MAN IN A SHOWER WITH A 10 YEAR OLD BOY should be enough to investigate and fire that perv.

I don't know how much more clear I can make this regardless if he knew about the rape he know Sandusky was in a shower with a 10 year old boy who is not his family

[gargamel]

According to the grand jury report, McQueary "reported what he had seen" to Paterno. For me, that's where all the ambiguity lies. Depending on what that means, maybe Paterno did the right thing, maybe he should have called the cops or maybe he should have grabbed a gun and gone after Sandusky. We just don't know what "reported what he had seen" means. I'm not even arguing this point anymore, but I want to make clear that this is why some people are saying a more full investigation should have taken place before Paterno was fired. It's not because anyone is condoning inaction regarding a known child molester

[Regulator75]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I suspect this will change the NCAA and college football, precisely because Penn State was/is on a pedastal, if/when it turns out that for all the talk of honor and character the program was only concerned to protect itself and the money it made at the expense of the rape of scores of boys then this is likely to be college footballs 'Conseco' moment, underscoring how little the game has to with educating young men or anything positive from an educational sense or moral point of view.

It wouldn't matter in the pro game, no one expects them to more than entertain, but these guys are supposed to be setting positive values for young adults, that is, in theory, the reason for the NCAA's existance.

How will it change NCAA football? A 'Don't Employ Child Molesters' policy will be introduced? Pretty sure that's always been the case.

College football is no different than any other big business or institution. People make horrible and shameful choices out of some misguided notion of protecting the brand or what it's supposedly stands for. People have always done it. People did it after the Catholic Church scandal, people will do it after this scandal.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Yes you right it is grey area in the child protective code, McQuerry did what was the minimal legal requirement.

I am calling it as I see it, you don't have to like it, frankly I don't care if you don't

He did what was minimally required by the law and it's a grey area? Hmm, not sure if you're a lawyer but if so you're a poor one. There's no grey there. The requirement was x, he did x. Should the requirement be more substantial? I would say yes, but it's not. Go ahead and keep coming at me for factual statements though.

I take accusations of defending people complicit in child molestation pretty seriously. If you want to make that claim you better be prepared to back it up. It's garbage and you know it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

How will it change NCAA football? A 'Don't Employ Child Molesters' policy will be introduced? Pretty sure that's always been the case.

College football is no different than any other big business or institution. People make horrible and shameful choices out of some misguided notion of protecting the brand or what it's supposedly stands for. People have always done it. People did it after the Catholic Church scandal, people will do it after this scandal.

Well I think this will make it clear the NCAA is just a big business, which it isnt supposed to be and pretends otherwise, and the Roman Catholic Church has undergone huge changes and has been massively affected by its scandels.

I

[fundmark19]

Taken from the actual grand jury document

Joseph Paterno testified to recieveing the graduate asistant's report at his home on saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley Paternos immediate superior at his home the very next day, a sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

This is all that is needed! If someone told me my assistant coach was doing something of a sexual nature I would do everything in my power to immediatly remove this person from my staff. A staff that deals with young adults every day!

Paterno is just a guilty as everyone else for harboring a criminal and enabling that criminal to keep doing disgusting things to children.

I wish the university would not even aknowledge Paternos past accomplishments because having this person associated with your school is an embarrasment

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well I think this will make it clear the NCAA is just a big business, which it isnt supposed to be and pretends otherwise

It is a big business, and I don't think that's news to anyone. There's a reason why the highest paid state employee in most states is either the head football coach or the head basketball coach of the state's largest state university.

[afc wimbledon]

One does have to wonder why McQuery didn't beat the ####### to death there and then?

[gargamel]

McQueary has now been placed on indefinite leave. Not sure why it took this long, but it needed to happen.

[Barnet Flame]

I don't know the facts of what went on as I am only going by what I read in the local press (London Evening Standard). What I find disturbing is the outrage amongst the students at Penn State over Paterno's sacking rather than outrage that young boys got raped by someone from their football programme and that it happened on campus.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

It is a big business, and I don't think that's news to anyone. There's a reason why the highest paid state employee in most states is either the head football coach or the head basketball coach of the state's largest state university.

Its a business that masquerades as something else far more positive, which is why it gets a pass on so many scandels, at some point in time I think that tolerance will wear out. Whether this is the scandel that does it remains to be seen.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

McQueary has now been placed on indefinite leave. Not sure why it took this long, but it needed to happen.

Its actually a relief to hear he has been subjected to many death threats himself, in a weird way that seems an appropriate response.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Its a business that masquerades as something else far more positive, which is why it gets a pass on so many scandels, at some point in time I think that tolerance will wear out. Whether this is the scandel that does it remains to be seen.

I don't think anyone pretends that NCAA football isn't big business, I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that it's masquerading as anything.

What other scandals has the NCAA gotten a pass on? Corruption scandals with certain bowl games? Mass firings and financial penalties. Scandals involving athletes? Many people have been fired and many athletes suspended, as wel las greater punishments to schools, many of which amounted to multi-million dollar punishments.

Seriously, what scandals has the NCAA gotten a pass on?

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by valo403

He did what was minimally required by the law and it's a grey area? Hmm, not sure if you're a lawyer but if so you're a poor one. There's no grey there. The requirement was x, he did x. Should the requirement be more substantial? I would say yes, but it's not. Go ahead and keep coming at me for factual statements though.

I take accusations of defending people complicit in child molestation pretty seriously. If you want to make that claim you better be prepared to back it up. It's garbage and you know it.

Yes you got me, I didn't realize Pennsylvania law does not require you to report child abuse to the police, you do do know many states do though right?

I never said you were defending Sandusky, i said you are defending the participants in the cover up. Are you are not defending McQuerry? I agree with you he did what was required by law, do you agree with what he did morally? If not you should agree that he should be fired by the trustees as well.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't think anyone pretends that NCAA football isn't big business, I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that it's masquerading as anything.

What other scandals has the NCAA gotten a pass on? Corruption scandals with certain bowl games? Mass firings and financial penalties. Scandals involving athletes? Many people have been fired and many athletes suspended, as wel las greater punishments to schools, many of which amounted to multi-million dollar punishments.

Seriously, what scandals has the NCAA gotten a pass on?

I think it gets a pass on all of this, can you imagine any of this at a canadian college or in europe? in every other country in the world college sport is a tiny unimportant part of life overshadowed by the schools academic merit, except in the US where it is little more than a vast feeder system for the NBA and NFL.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Yes you got me, I didn't realize Pennsylvania law does not require you to report child abuse to the police, you do do know many states do though right?

I never said you were defending Sandusky, i said you are defending the participants in the cover up. Are you are not defending McQuerry? I agree with you he did what was required by law, do you agree with what he did morally? If not you should agree that he should be fired by the trustees as well.

I think this might get tested as the backlash grows, most educators have a responsibility to protect their charges built into child abuse law, how they do it may be open to an arguement, especially if public opinion turns against Paterno.