Penn State football officials implicated in covering up on campus child rape by coach

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

That Paterno knew why his assistant was retiring at 54 or that they let other colleges know and that is why the best college linebacker coach in modern history wasn't offered another job?

There is no way the college didn't know Sandusky was being investigated and the outcome, it was their police force that investigated the creep.
as to the other college part I agree it is speculation but it does explain how the guy that was credited with creating 'linebacker U' wasn't ever head hunted.

There could be dozens of explanations for his retirement, the idea that he was forced out due to a scandal becoming known to Paterno is entirely speculation. It's possible, but there's nothing concrete to say that's what happened.

[SeeBass]

I think this incident is the final push that this crime deserves.

It will change in a way I can't really describe, I just know that the way we act in the future will be different.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I think this incident is the final push that this crime deserves.

It will change in a way I can't really describe, I just know that the way we act in the future will be different.

Just curious what you think this will do to change our actions. It's not as if this is the first massive scandal involving child molestation. The scandals with the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts have already significantly changed the way we act.

[fundmark19]

How can anyone dispute that Paterno didn't know? It was investigated by the university police and I am pretty confident they would have interviewed with Paterno and I believe on ESPN Radio they said they had but I can not confirm this for sure.

Another thing that bothers me is that of the 02 rape Paterno was told and then he passed it up the ladder. How did the 2 people above him get charged with purgery and yet Paterno didn't. They got their information from Paterno!! They all said the same story in court. If you charge the upper 2 don't you have to charge Paterno as well?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

How can anyone dispute that Paterno didn't know? It was investigated by the university police and I am pretty confident they would have interviewed with Paterno and I believe on ESPN Radio they said they had but I can not confirm this for sure.

Another thing that bothers me is that of the 02 rape Paterno was told and then he passed it up the ladder. How did the 2 people above him get charged with purgery and yet Paterno didn't. They got their information from Paterno!! They all said the same story in court. If you charge the upper 2 don't you have to charge Paterno as well?

There's no information that says Paterno was told in 98, he may have been but that's purely speculation.

As to your second point, I don't think you're understanding what the charges are or what they entail. There's nothing to indicate Paterno ever lied under oath, that's what perjury is, and there's no obstruction charge as he did what he was required to do legally by reporting it to his superiors.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by valo403

Just curious what you think this will do to change our actions. It's not as if this is the first massive scandal involving child molestation. The scandals with the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts have already significantly changed the way we act.

Not enough it seems.

You may have noticed that I said the words " I can't describe" cause I really don't know. This is not the first massive scandal, of course, but I believe a tipping point that we were not at yet.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Not enough it seems.

You may have noticed that I said the words " I can't describe" cause I really don't know. This is not the first massive scandal, of course, but I believe a tipping point that we were not at yet.

Hmm, I don't know. I don't think this changes things all that much. We've had scandals far bigger than this one, with people in far greater positions of authority involved. It's sad to say, but things like this will always be present. There will always be predators out there, and regardless of the protections put in place they will strike.

[RougeUnderoos]

One thing I don't get about this whole thing is the "he did what he was legally obligated to do by telling his superiors".

Isn't everyone legally obligated to do a little more than tell their boss if they see someone committing a crime like this? We're not talking about stealing a bag of elastics from the office supply cabinet.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

One thing I don't get about this whole thing is the "he did what he was legally obligated to do by telling his superiors".

Isn't everyone legally obligated to do a little more than tell their boss if they see someone committing a crime like this? We're not talking about stealing a bag of elastics from the office supply cabinet.

Nope.

[fundmark19]

Who cares if he is legally responsible or not. It sickens me that everyone has him on this pedestal that he did nothing wrong and is the most amazing human ever. Paterno's name should be tarnished and everyone should be remembering him as a man who did nothing when faced with an opportunity to help abused children. You would think common sense would say when a grown man is in a shower with a 10 year old boy that is not his that is wrong!

End of story

I hope more comes out and his name gets rubbed through the mud even more. He is not a great man, he is a coward regardless of what his football record states! There is more to life then just football and it seems that all these americans forget that he did nothing to stop children from potentially being raped by a man he hired/gave an office and access to university facilities.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Nope.

Are you for real? I must have forgotten that once you enter the hallowed halls of Penn State all common law doesn't apply. If you see someone getting murdered there all you have to do is report it to your supervisor and then off for some pizza and beer.

I hope civil litigation cripples the program.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Are you for real? I must have forgotten that once you enter the hallowed halls of Penn State all common law doesn't apply. If you see someone getting murdered there all you have to do is report it to your supervisor and then off for some pizza and beer.

I hope civil litigation cripples the program.

Am I for real? I think so. Sorry to be the person who makes an accurate factual statement.

If you see someone getting murdered you don't have to do a damn thing. You don't have to report it to anyone. There is no law that compels you to do a thing as a witness. You're citing Common Law? Please tell me where in the tenets of Common Law a witness is required to report what they have seen.

The only reason Paterno was legally required to report anything to his superiors was that someone junior to him reported it to him, thereby requiring him to report up the chain of command.

That's reality. You don't like it? Fine. But don't come after me for it.

Quite frankly I'm sick of this garbage from you. Yesterday it's accusing me of defending the actions of people involved, now it's coming after me for saying what the law requires. Grow the f up.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Who cares if he is legally responsible or not. It sickens me that everyone has him on this pedestal that he did nothing wrong and is the most amazing human ever. Paterno's name should be tarnished and everyone should be remembering him as a man who did nothing when faced with an opportunity to help abused children. You would think common sense would say when a grown man is in a shower with a 10 year old boy that is not his that is wrong!

End of story

I hope more comes out and his name gets rubbed through the mud even more. He is not a great man, he is a coward regardless of what his football record states! There is more to life then just football and it seems that all these americans forget that he did nothing to stop children from potentially being raped by a man he hired/gave an office and access to university facilities.

Who are all of these people? A bunch of idiot kids in State College and some PSU alums, and who else? Where are all of "these Americans" saying that Paterno did nothing wrong?

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Am I for real? I think so. Sorry to be the person who makes an accurate factual statement.

If you see someone getting murdered you don't have to do a damn thing. You don't have to report it to anyone. There is no law that compels you to do a thing as a witness. You're citing Common Law? Please tell me where in the tenets of Common Law a witness is required to report what they have seen.

The only reason Paterno was legally required to report anything to his superiors was that someone junior to him reported it to him, thereby requiring him to report up the chain of command.

That's reality. You don't like it? Fine. But don't come after me for it.

Quite frankly I'm sick of this garbage from you. Yesterday it's accusing me of defending the actions of people involved, now it's coming after me for saying what the law requires. Grow the f up.

Yes you right it is grey area in the child protective code, McQuerry did what was the minimal legal requirement.

I am calling it as I see it, you don't have to like it, frankly I don't care if you don't

[fundmark19]

Everywhere on the internet, sports talk radios. Google Paterno and nothing comes up about how he should be held accountable. If americans felt that way his name would be slandered all ready over social media and regular media. Everywhere reads he was unjustly fired. Did what he had to do. Has done so much for thousands of young men over decades of time.

I don't see any headlines saying Joe Paterno's name and reputation should be tarnished. I see headlines saying that Joe's football reputation should not be harmed because of these allegations because he did nothing legally wrong.

The fact that the guy hasn't lawyer-ed up yet shows that he isn't even worried about civil suits yet. McQueary isn't attending the game because of threats. Paterno isn't attending the game out of respect to the new coaches. Why is no one threatening him? I don't agree with threatening an individual but it is always a good indication that people strongly oppose that person which in this case should be happening.

People all across America should be livid at what this man allowed to happen but it doesn't seem like anyone cares because he is the "greatest football coach ever and one of the greatest men alive"

[gargamel]

What media are you referring to? I listen to Philly sports talk radio for about 2 hours every day, and every host and 95% of the callers (many of them PSU alumni) are upset that Paterno wasn't fired sooner. Every newspaper article I've seen has focused more on Paterno's fault than Sandusky's fault. Even the people who you think are saying that Paterno did nothing wrong, for the most part, are just saying that we should wait for more facts to come out before jumping to conclusions. I haven't heard a single person say that they believe Paterno knew what was going on but still think he's blameless. Are they in denial? Maybe. But they're not supporting what you think they're supporting.

[burn_this_city]

FWIW 25% of people on CNN.com don't think he should have been fired immediately.

[Montana Moe]

Yeah, I'm not getting that vibe at all.

Do people mention his legacy/record etc? Yes, that's what he's known for. He's absolutely not a sympathetic figure in any media outlet outside of State College that I can find. Certainly not on any other message boards I see.

That poll is disappointing, I wonder how many of those 25% have read the grand jury statement...

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

FWIW 25% of people on CNN.com don't think he should have been fired immediately.

Again, I'd be willing to bet that nearly all of that 25% would agree that he should have been fired if he knew what was happening. They probably (like me), just think Paterno deserved a chance to tell his side of the story before we jump to conclusions about the holes and ambiguities in the grand jury report.


We don't know if Paterno knew about the '98 investigation. We don't know what McQueary told Paterno. We can all make assumptions about those things, but I'd like to think that my fate wouldn't be put in the hands of an assumption-making mob after four decades of service. That's why I voted "no" on that CNN survey, but if you want to assume that it's because Americans care more about football than child molestation, well, I guess I can't stop you.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Hmm, I don't know. I don't think this changes things all that much. We've had scandals far bigger than this one, with people in far greater positions of authority involved. It's sad to say, but things like this will always be present. There will always be predators out there, and regardless of the protections put in place they will strike.

I suspect this will change the NCAA and college football, precisely because Penn State was/is on a pedastal, if/when it turns out that for all the talk of honor and character the program was only concerned to protect itself and the money it made at the expense of the rape of scores of boys then this is likely to be college footballs 'Conseco' moment, underscoring how little the game has to with educating young men or anything positive from an educational sense or moral point of view.

It wouldn't matter in the pro game, no one expects them to more than entertain, but these guys are supposed to be setting positive values for young adults, that is, in theory, the reason for the NCAA's existance.