Penn State football officials implicated in covering up on campus child rape by coach

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would agree if we were talking the Aggies or some other academic craphole with little else going for it but football, but this is an Ivy league collage that wouldn't be affected by its loss and they have to get out in front of this completely, they are likely on the hook for multi million damage awards anyway but a succesion of sordid tales about little boys being buggered in the change rooms is going to destroy the program anyway, dropping it might save the reputation of the college.

This is going to get a whole hell of a lot worse.

I don't think you really know what school or program you're talking about. Penn State is about as big of a football program as there is in the country, and it means as much, if not more, to the greater institution than it does at any school. There is absolutely zero chance that this results in the end of the football program.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't think you really know what school or program you're talking about. Penn State is about as big of a football program as there is in the country, and it means as much, if not more, to the greater institution than it does at any school. There is absolutely zero chance that this results in the end of the football program.

it may whether they want it to or not, what are punative damages likely to be for several hundred abused kids?

[JMN]

Good news, the school was right in firing him and doing it quickly.

"The university is much larger than its athletic teams," board vice chair John Surma said during a packed news conference.

- TSN

[GirlySports]

All the news stations incorrectly calling this a sex scandal (stupid CNN)

I WISH it was a sex scandal (I did not have sexual relations with that women).

This is FAR worse.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by moon

I think you are confused with Penn which is an Ivy League school.

Sorry misreading wiki, penn state is considered a public Ivy, a public school that competes with the Ivy leagues in academic rigeur.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

All the news stations incorrectly calling this a sex scandal (stupid CNN)

I WISH it was a sex scandal (I did not have sexual relations with that women).

This is FAR worse.

That has infuriated me more than anything about this. Sex scandal? Better descriptors would be : Rape, Torture, Abuse, Molestation, Pedophilia

Sex Scandal?

a) Sex usually implies consent (I mean in the connotative sense)
b) Not a scandal, an egregious felony

Sex scandal is like what Bill Clinton had.

bejeebus people.

[bomba]

Originally Posted by CBC

Key dates in sex abuse case

A chronological look at the case against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, based on a grand jury report in Pennsylvania state court.

• 1969 — Jerry Sandusky starts his coaching career at Penn State University as a defensive line coach.
• 1977 — Jerry Sandusky founds The Second Mile. It begins as a group foster home dedicated to helping troubled boys and grows into a charity dedicated to helping children with absent or dysfunctional families.
• January 1983 — Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1982 season.
• January 1987 — Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1986 season.
• 1994 — Boy known as Victim 7 in the report meets Sandusky through The Second Mile program at about the age of 10.
• 1994-95 — Boy known as Victim 6 meets Sandusky at a Second Mile picnic at Spring Creek Park when he is 7 or 8 years old.
• 1995-96 — Boy known as Victim 5, meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is 7 or 8, in second or third grade.
• 1996-97 — Boy known as Victim 4, at the age of 12 or 13, meets Sandusky while he is in his second year participating in The Second Mile program.
• 1996-98 — Victim 5 is taken to the locker rooms and showers at Penn State by Sandusky when he is 8 to 10 years old.
• Jan. 1, 1998 — Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1998 Outback Bowl.
• June 1999 — Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.
• Dec. 28, 1999 — Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.
• Summer 2000 — Boy known as Victim 3 meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is between seventh and eighth grade.
• March 2, 2002 — In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.
• March 3, 2002 — Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State athletic director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.
• March 2002 — Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and senior vice-president for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.
• March 27, 2002 (approximate) — The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker-room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.
• 2005-2006 — Boy known as Victim 1 says that meets Sandusky through The Second Mile at age 11 or 12.
• Spring 2007 — During the 2007 track season, Sandusky begins spending time with Victim 1 weekly, having him stay overnight at his residence in College Township, Pa.
• Spring 2008 — Termination of contact with Victim 1 occurs when he is a freshman in a Clinton County high school. After the boy's mother calls the school to report sexual assault, Sandusky is barred from the school district attended by Victim 1 from that day forward and the matter is reported to authorities as mandated by law.
• Early 2009 — An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period.
• September 2010 — Sandusky retires from day-to-day involvement with The Second Mile, saying he wants to spend more time with family and handle personal matters.
• Nov. 5, 2011 — Sandusky is arrested and released on $100,000 US bail after being arraigned on 40 criminal counts.
• Nov. 7, 2011 — Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the investigation into how the school handled the accusations. But she refuses to say the same for university president Graham Spanier. Curley and Schultz, who have stepped down from their positions, surrender on charges that they failed to alert police to complaints against Sandusky.
• Nov. 8, 2011 — Possible ninth victim of Sandusky contacts state police as calls for ouster of Paterno and Spanier grow in state and beyond. Penn State abruptly cancels Paterno's regular weekly press conference.
• Nov. 9, 2011 — Paterno and Spanier, one of the nation's longest-serving college presidents, are ousted, effective immediately. Earlier in the day, Paterno announced he'd retire at the end of the season. In the end, he didn't have that choice.

Its interesting how fast the hammer dropped on these people between Nov 5 - today when you consider how long the timeline has stretched back. Imagine stewing on that internal guilt of having the knowledge of these abuses for 10 years. Crazy.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by bomba

Its interesting how fast the hammer dropped on these people between Nov 5 - today when you consider how long the timeline has stretched back. Imagine stewing on that internal guilt of having the knowledge of these abuses for 10 years. Crazy.

It is surmised that they wanted Paterno to get his wins record so held off on this until he had that.

[GirlySports]

I think these are the key points for Paterno

March 2, 2002 — In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.

March 3, 2002 — Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State athletic director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.

Paterno hears from the grad and then the next day tells "a version" to the AD.
What does a version mean? How accurate was Paterno's report. Once Paterno goes to the AD, he feels that he's done his duty. Should Paterno have spoken up later on in the following years as he sees that nothing has been done. Was he shutdown by the AD? Should Paterno have eventually taken matters into his own hands and call police while the school is supposedly handling things?

[Street Pharmacist]

If nothing else, people will now be acutely aware of their legal obligations in these matters. No more "well I told so-and-so" cover-up bull####

[Ron Duguay's Hair]

Interesting article from Grantland as the author is from the town in which Penn St. is situated. Gives insight into the consciousness of the town's people.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...tate#footnote5

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think these are the key points for Paterno

Paterno hears from the grad and then the next day tells "a version" to the AD.
What does a version mean? How accurate was Paterno's report. Once Paterno goes to the AD, he feels that he's done his duty. Should Paterno have spoken up later on in the following years as he sees that nothing has been done. Was he shutdown by the AD? Should Paterno have eventually taken matters into his own hands and call police while the school is supposedly handling things?

And I think this is where JoePa supporters differ from those pointing to his rsponsibility. He absolutey had a duty to follow up. Protocol be damned. Human Decency > College Sports chain of command

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think these are the key points for Paterno

Paterno hears from the grad and then the next day tells "a version" to the AD.
What does a version mean? How accurate was Paterno's report. Once Paterno goes to the AD, he feels that he's done his duty. Should Paterno have spoken up later on in the following years as he sees that nothing has been done. Was he shutdown by the AD? Should Paterno have eventually taken matters into his own hands and call police while the school is supposedly handling things?

Its not just that, apparently the real question is what did the college know that caused Sandusky, the succesor to Paterno 'retire' at 54 and yet keep emeritus status, it looks as if they went Catholic Church on this and moved him away from direct contact with their kids but didn't bother to protect any others.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by Ron Duguay's Hair

Interesting article from Grantland as the author is from the town in which Penn St. is situated. Gives insight into the consciousness of the town's people.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...tate#footnote5

I think people that may not necessarily be familiar with college football don't understand the power the program yields, especially in these smaller towns that are basically known for the University. Joe Paterno is the most powerful man in State College, PA. He makes more money than the University President. He is revered as a God among men in State College. If he wanted this investigation to happen in 1998, or 2002, he could have made it happen.

Sandusky was his right hand man for decades, anything that happened with him reflected on JoePa. I don't doubt that played a role in his lack of follow-up in this case. I think he's playing the "aw shucks" old man role quite well, but the truth is, he tried to control his own destiny today by resigning effective at the end of the season.

I commend the Board of Trustees for taking away that power play tonight. It makes me think that there are people that realize Penn State is truly more than the football program.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by valo403

Are you a PSU fan? The Paterno apologist routine is rather stunning.

I'm really not being a Paterno apologist. I've never said that he should keep his job if he had reason to believe that Sandusky had abused anyone. If McQueary told him that he was sure that he saw Sandusky having anal sex with a child, Paterno should have been fired. If Paterno knew about the '98 allegation (combined with McQueary telling him anything about the 2002 incident, even if it was just "it looking like he might possibly have been doing something of a sexual nature"), Paterno should have been fired. We just don't know any of that yet. I'm not saying that what Paterno did was right - I'm saying that he deserved a chance to tell his side of the story before his life was ruined.

To answer your question though, I've always hated Penn State (other than, oddly enough, McQueary - I sat beside him for 2 hours while rooting for the Michigan basketball team to beat his Nittany Lions, and he couldn't have been nicer), but I did grow up in Pennsylvania and have been surrounded by people who look up to Paterno my whole life. He was always one of the good guys, and it would really be a tragedy to destroy his reputation over this if it ultimately turns out that he did nothing wrong. I guess I just don't see the harm in allowing the whole situation to have more than 5 days to play out.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I'm really not being a Paterno apologist. I've never said that he should keep his job if he had reason to believe that Sandusky had abused anyone. If McQueary told him that he was sure that he saw Sandusky having anal sex with a child, Paterno should have been fired. If Paterno knew about the '98 allegation (combined with McQueary telling him anything about the 2002 incident, even if it was just "it looking like he might possibly have been doing something of a sexual nature"), Paterno should be fired. We just don't know any of that yet. I'm not saying that what Paterno did was right - I'm saying that he deserves a chance to tell his side of the story before his life is ruined.

To answer your question though, I've always hated Penn State (other than, oddly enough, McQueary - I sat beside him for 2 hours while rooting for the Michigan basketball team to beat his Nittany Lions, and he couldn't have been nicer), but I did grow up in Pennsylvania and have been surrounded by people who look up to Paterno my whole life. He was always one of the good guys, and it would really be a tragedy to destroy his reputation over this if it ultimately turns out that he did nothing wrong. I guess I just don't see the harm in allowing the whole situation to have more than 5 days to play out.

I recognise that Paterno fullfilled his legal obligation, but it matters not one jot what comes out after this, morally he is as bankrupt and corrupt as the other scumbags, they all deserve jail, all of them, Paterno included, based on no more than we know now.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I recognise that Paterno fullfilled his legal obligation, but it matters not one jot what comes out after this, morally he is as bankrupt and corrupt as the other scumbags, they all deserve jail, all of them, Paterno included, based on no more than we know now.

What if all that McQueary told Paterno was, "I saw Sandusky in the locker room with a boy from his charity and it looked like he might have been doing something inappropriate"? What should Paterno have done in that situation? What would you have done? Call the cops and ruin your friend's life? Report what you've been told to superiors who can investigate further? Talk to your friend? Because we now know that Sandusky was abusing children, of course we wish that Paterno had gone to the cops, but the morally correct decision may have been less clear at the time.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

What if all that McQueary told Paterno was, "I saw Sandusky in the locker room with a boy from his charity and it looked like he might have been doing something inappropriate"? What should Paterno have done in that situation? What would you have done? Call the cops and ruin your friend's life? Report what you've been told to superiors who can investigate further? Talk to your friend? Because we now know that Sandusky was abusing children, of course we wish that Paterno had gone to the cops, but the morally correct decision may have been less clear at the time.

Either that or take a baseball bat to him, we're talking about the sodomy of a 10 year old boy.

Bear in mind the college and Paterno were already aware of allegations in 98 which Sandusky had admitted to, which seems to be why Sandusky retired in '99 then a few years later this comes up, no there is no excuse or extenuating circumstance that gets Paterno off morally, he was well aware that his friend was likely abusing little boys. That goes beyond any other consideration.

[gargamel]

If Pateno knew that, I agree. We don't know that he knew that though. I don't know how many ways I can say this.

I give up. The mob has spoken.

[afc wimbledon]

1998 – Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.
Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."
Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.
The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.
June 1999 – Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.

There is no way in hell Paterno wasn't aware his assistant coach had admited to being inapropriate to boys, which is why he had to 'retire' at 54.