Occupy Calgary/Do Not Merge

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

They would refuse to provide identification.

One of them is provincial NDP candidate for Calgary Mountain View, Chris McMillan. I'm sure many of them would hightail it if they had to cough up ID.

Here is Facebook link for anyone interested in attending on Sunday.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=255066194541343

[getbak]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would love to forward that twitter to that Tawnee people and ask her to define social activism since she's so big on that term, but I'm not setup on Twitter.

What? You mean this isn't you: https://twitter.com/#!/RealCapnCrunch ???


I guess that explains all the tweets about cereal.

[taco.vidal]

The city should have organized with police to go in last night and remove empty tents. With it being the coldest night yet and first night with snow on the ground, Id bet a lot of the "occupiers" went home to the warm confines of their parents homes. (Plus with it being Friday night I wouldn't doubt if many took the opportunity to head out to a pub to talk philosophy over a few pints of beer and attempt to solve the worlds problems.)

Either use infrared cameras to see which tents have no people in them or spot check the tents to ensure the wellbeing of everyone given the cold weather.

[RedJester]

Some rich ass uses loopholes in the tax system to get even richer - Everything is working as intended.

A few hippies and homeless people use loopholes in the legal system to protest - DANG NABBIT THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

This popcorn is delicious.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by RedJester

Some rich ass uses loopholes in the tax system to get even richer - Everything is working as intended.

A few hippies and homeless people use loopholes in the legal system to protest - DANG NABBIT THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

This popcorn is delicious.

Then maybe they should protest that and state that issue. I would have no problem getting on board with them on that issue.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Does this protest really impaect peoples lives in any way shape or form? I think that it is a trivial protest and that the issues in the United States don't exist for the most part here in Canada - particularly in Alberta. At the same time if someone wants to camp out in order to protest something - and it isn't really harming anyone, who cares? How many people have had their daily life impacted at all? I would bet the number would be very close to zero and those whose life is impacted, I would imagine that it would be inconsequential.

Protesting the protestors and the petitions seem more like some more people with too much time on their hands.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Agent86

Does this protest really impaect peoples lives in any way shape or form? I think that it is a trivial protest and that the issues in the United States don't exist for the most part here in Canada - particularly in Alberta. At the same time if someone wants to camp out in order to protest something - and it isn't really harming anyone, who cares? How many people have had their daily life impacted at all? I would bet the number would be very close to zero and those whose life is impacted, I would imagine that it would be inconsequential.

Protesting the protestors and the petitions seem more like some more people with too much time on their hands.

To me it's two fold,

1) they don't seem to be protesting anything in particular, or at least they haven't articulated it well. Protesting for the sake of protesting it seems. Today it's tax cuts for the rich, tomorrow it's the oil sands, day after it's free transit for everyone.

2) I worry about the next group who comes along and decides their setting their soapbox up in the middle of traffic, or a train station and hiding behind the charter to do so.

By allowing them to stay we're basically saying "you're freedom of speech is more important than anything else, even if you don't have anything to say. As such you are exempt from the law"

Yes I'm using a strawman argument about a slippery slope, but what happens to the next guy who decides he's camping out in the middle of a busy intersection and playing his bag pipes until he get's his unicorn dipped in chocolate?

So no, at the end of the day a dozen or so campers isn't causing much harm, but I find it hard to support a group that would throw the homeless under the bus for their "cause" when it seems to change day to day and has no definable goal.

[Regular_John]

Artur Pawlowski is a perfect example of this. He's annoying as hell and I'm glad the city has limited his actions in the past, but they'll have a hard time enforcing by-laws against him in the future as Nenshi has basically said "our bylaws are ultimately toothless".

Next time he sets up his amplifier on Stephen Avenue and rambles on about Jesus they'll have a hard time shutting him down or moving him along. He's only breaking "a few laws" does it really effect anyone that poorly?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Agent86

Does this protest really impaect peoples lives in any way shape or form? I think that it is a trivial protest and that the issues in the United States don't exist for the most part here in Canada - particularly in Alberta. At the same time if someone wants to camp out in order to protest something - and it isn't really harming anyone, who cares? How many people have had their daily life impacted at all? I would bet the number would be very close to zero and those whose life is impacted, I would imagine that it would be inconsequential.

Protesting the protestors and the petitions seem more like some more people with too much time on their hands.

Oh come on now. It's not about the nature of the protest, it's about the equal enforcement of bylaws and the enjoyment of our parkspaces and nothing more! Didn't you read the petition?

If this was pro-life protest camping in that park, or a protest to gain benefits for veterans, or a protest to ban gay marriage, First Lady and other conservatives would be equally outraged, and would be circulating petitions to have them evicted. They'd also be organizing a counter protest on Sunday afternoon.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

... until he get's his unicorn dipped in chocolate?

I highly recommend this on Valentines Day. Your lady will eat it up.




...

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Agent86

Does this protest really impaect peoples lives in any way shape or form?

If it doesn't effect us "personally" we are precluded to having an opinion or position on it?

People breaking by-laws can negatively effect our neighbours and communities; but we should all just stand around and not speak up because it doesn't effect us individually?

I live in a community that takes great pride in itself. We look out for each other to create a better community.

As Tony at the Herald recently described very well.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Oh come on now. It's not about the nature of the protest, it's about the equal enforcement of bylaws and the enjoyment of our parkspaces and nothing more! Didn't you read the petition?

If this was pro-life protest camping in that park, or a protest to gain benefits for veterans, or a protest to ban gay marriage, First Lady and other conservatives would be equally outraged, and would be circulating petitions to have them evicted. They'd also be organizing a counter protest on Sunday afternoon.

Thank you.

In this particular case I think I support more than not; what they are (poorly) trying to speak out about. But as you point out, that is not the point of our petition.

We firmly believe the Charter can be respected within laws and bylaws. I also believe Section 1 of Charter addresses this very issue.

Nenshi agrees me on this, but won't share his (city's) lawyers comments on it.

Nenshi also agrees with me on what I have proposed as the "first steps".

The petition is part of compelling him and council to move in that direction.


Going out to family event, would love to debate this further.

Details on tomorrows signature gathering and the petition can be found here:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=255066194541343

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by First Lady

If it doesn't effect us "personally" we are precluded to having an opinion or position on it?

No but it seems silly, if not downright weird, to get so worked up about something so inconsequential to anyone's daily life to go out of ones way to create a petition about the issue.

Originally Posted by First Lady

People breaking by-laws can negatively effect our neighbours and communities; but we should all just stand around and not speak up because it doesn't effect us individually?

How is it negatively impacting your community? Honestly it seems like you are going out of your way to be impacted by it while no one else particularly cares. Some people set up tents and have a model UN - do I think that they are being naive and foolish... you bet I do. Do I think that you are using this as an opportunity to promote your name and make it a bigger issue than it otherwise would be - once again, yes.

Originally Posted by First Lady

I live in a community that takes great pride in itself. We look out for each other to create a better community.

I am sure that the protesters feel the exact same way.

Originally Posted by First Lady

In this particular case I think I support more than not; what they are (poorly) trying to speak out about. But as you point out, that is not the point of our petition.

I am pretty sure he is being sarcastic, it seems to me as though you are a quasi-politician who is using this as a tool in order to gain prominence before a provincial election and your outrage is more directed towards the protesters rather than their flagrant disregard for city bylaws

[CaptainCrunch]

So Agent

If the pro life groups or some white supremist group decided to setup a camp ground to enforce their right to free speech and free assembly and free protest would you be happy if the city let them sit there?

IF we're going to do the whole rights over bi-laws thing, then it has to be universally enforced.

[woob]

Originally Posted by First Lady

People breaking by-laws can negatively effect our neighbours and communities;

Yeah, like getting stopped to sign some silly petition or having them knock on your door to sign a petition.

I live in a community that takes great pride in itself. We look out for each other to create a better community.

So is your pride in your community reduced if a small group of people gather somewhere within that community and protest? For me, I know it wouldn't. It also wouldn't prevent me from looking out for my fellow community members nor would it prevent me from creating a better community.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by woob

So is your pride in your community reduced if a small group of people gather somewhere within that community and protest?

No, if it's within bylaws. Why is that so difficult for some to comprehend.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by First Lady

No, if it's within bylaws. Why is that so difficult for some to comprehend.

I also think that a petition has some underlying political motivations here, just knowing that you were a former aldermanic candidate. It's hard to get away from that. Unfortunately it's hard to buy the "community pride" argument because of it as well.

The petition itself is not a bad thing; the optics of it are just off IMO.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I also think that a petition has some underlying political motivations here, just knowing that you were a former aldermanic candidate. It's hard to get away from that. Unfortunately it's hard to buy the "community pride" argument because of it as well.

I can't control people's reactions to what I might do or what they "believe" to be the motives behind them.

The vast majority of people who run for office do have a sense of community pride and care a great deal about the city (province/country) as a whole.

Do you think the occupiers are without political motive?

What about Chris? He has been one of the most vocal and he's an actual candidate. Do you question he motives as well?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by woob

Yeah, like getting stopped to sign some silly petition or having them knock on your door to sign a petition.




So is your pride in your community reduced if a small group of people gather somewhere within that community and protest? For me, I know it wouldn't. It also wouldn't prevent me from looking out for my fellow community members nor would it prevent me from creating a better community.

Honestly I don't even know how you can call it a protest? The only think that they accomplished is they nearly denied a bunch of homeless people cheap housing by sticking their noses into that business. And don't forget that they're too busy to really focus on helping individual people that need help because its too small for their global aspirations for change even though they have no idea about what they want to change.

If what they're doing is protesting its the laziest protests that I've ever seen.

They've even admitted it themselves, they really don't have any demands because they don't know what to demand, they've decided not to talk to the press.

I'm actually fine with leaving them there to protest, and I hope they have the fortitude to stay when the temperature drops to minus 10, even though I doubt that they will because its too hard.

But it did only take them three weeks to buy a whiteboard.

Its not a protest anymore its a camp out.

[llama64]

One camp achieved it's goal and will be disbanding.

The Olympic Plaza group is an embarrassment to anyone who actually supports a lot of what the Occupy movement signifies (specifically, income gap between classes). By not having a clear and concise call to action, their protest just falls flat and generates nothing but public irritation. While they do have legal right to be there and that is a right I would defend with my life, they really should pack it in.

This tweet from Tim Richter sums up the entire Occupy YYC movement to me: http://twitter.com/#!/timrichter/status/131860411891978240

[woob]

Originally Posted by First Lady

No, if it's within bylaws. Why is that so difficult for some to comprehend.

So, if I understand right, if some group that comes in your community is breaking bylaws it lessens your pride in your community? That's too bad that such a little thing would affect your pride. Must be hard to live with.