HDMI Switch / Audio Question - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

MickMcGeough · 11-03-2011, 11:57 AM

Can someone explain to me how HDMI audio formats work?

I'm trying to squeeze the last bit of life out of a Yamaha receiver (no HDMI, one functioning toslink input). My TV has toslink out, but inexplicably will not pass DTS through. Barring replacement of one of those, I need to install an HDMI switch with toslink out and cut the TV out of the audio loop completely.

My question is: how does the source determine the audio format to output? As I understand it, the HDMI source can check what formats are supported by the target device? If I install a switch, will the source continue to fall back to stereo (being that the TV doesn't support DTS)?

I was looking at this switch:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Anywhere local I could get something similar?

TorqueDog · 11-03-2011, 12:27 PM

A TV absolutely will not passthrough high definition audio formats using the TOSlink-out. Doesn't work, I've tried. I ran into a similar situation with my dad. He has a Kenwood 5.1 home theatre receiver that does not have any HDMI inputs, and wanted to run his Xbox 360 using HDMI but also have the added benefit of the receiver providing the true Dolby Digital 5.1 track. We tried a TOSlink cable from his Sharp Aquos to the Kenwood, but to no avail.

I was about five minutes away from going and buying him a new receiver before we tried running the HDMI to the TV and hacking apart the HDAV cable for the Xbox 360 so we could run the TOSlink to the receiver, then set up his Harmony 650 to automatically change the sources as appropriate.

Perhaps a similar configuration is possible for you, what sort of device are you trying to set up here?

Hack&Lube · 11-03-2011, 12:29 PM

Where is your signal coming from?

My setup is is optical SPDIF toslink digital audio out from the Shaw Motorola Receiver/PVR to oldschool Pioneer Reciever. HDMI video out from PVR to television. I also have an HTPC with coaxial SPDIF digital audio out to the Pioneer Receiver and video out via DVI into TV.

MickMcGeough · 11-03-2011, 01:40 PM

Thanks guys. The problem here is that I have only one toslink input that works on my amp, and 4 HDMI source devices. Routing the audio through the TV isn't something I wanted to do, it's just the only device I've got with multiple HDMI inputs and an audio out.

As a side note - I've got a Samsung LC46C630 and it passes through Dolby Digital just fine. At least my amp says it does...

Vulcan · 11-03-2011, 02:00 PM

Some TVs will send DolbyDigital 5:1 via toslink to your receiver and some won't or only will for OTA reception and than maybe only in 2:1. I have an LG TV that will send 5:1 Dolby via toslink to my receiver but the audio sync is so far off that I gave up on it and bought a switch, and than my old receiver died so I bought a new inexpensive receiver that does HDMI audio.

Okay than I got carried away and bought a TV that does ARC so any programming coming from the TV is carried back to the receiver via the same HDMI cable that sends the signal from the receiver to the TV.

Yeah that switch should work but how much longer do you want to keep investing in tech to make your receiver work?

Okay maybe I'm not understanding your question properly since you are talking about DTS.

MickMcGeough · 11-03-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Some TVs will send DolbyDigital 5:1 via toslink to your receiver and some won't or only will for OTA reception and than maybe only in 2:1. I have an LG TV that will send 5:1 Dolby via toslink to my receiver but the audio sync is so far off that I gave up on it and bought a switch, and than my old receiver died so I bought a new inexpensive receiver that does HDMI audio.

Okay than I got carried away and bought a TV that does ARC so any programming coming from the TV is carried back to the receiver via the same HDMI cable that sends the signal from the receiver to the TV.

Yeah that switch should work but how much longer do you want to keep investing in tech to make your receiver work?

Okay maybe I'm not understanding your question properly since you are talking about DTS.

Nope I think you understand fine.

I've invested $0 in keeping this amp alive so far, so I'm not all that upset with putting in $50 or so.

But - I'd take suggestions for cheap amps ( < $300 ) with 4 or more HDMI inputs...

Vulcan · 11-03-2011, 02:44 PM

Here's a couple that might fit your needs on a quick search although I don't have experience with them.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...edb00ba0a5en02

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...85e1c5f7f7en02

TorqueDog · 11-03-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

Nope I think you understand fine.

I've invested $0 in keeping this amp alive so far, so I'm not all that upset with putting in $50 or so.

But - I'd take suggestions for cheap amps ( < $300 ) with 4 or more HDMI inputs...

Yamaha Receivers, I picked up a Yamaha HTR-6250b from eBay and I love it. For your purposes, an HTR-4063b looks perfect. $199 for the next four days.

OldDutch · 11-04-2011, 08:18 AM

Edit: Nm

oilyfan · 11-04-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

Can someone explain to me how HDMI audio formats work?

I'm trying to squeeze the last bit of life out of a Yamaha receiver (no HDMI, one functioning toslink input). My TV has toslink out, but inexplicably will not pass DTS through. Barring replacement of one of those, I need to install an HDMI switch with toslink out and cut the TV out of the audio loop completely.

My question is: how does the source determine the audio format to output? As I understand it, the HDMI source can check what formats are supported by the target device? If I install a switch, will the source continue to fall back to stereo (being that the TV doesn't support DTS)?

I was looking at this switch:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Anywhere local I could get something similar?

Yeah Mick you are right the HDMI EDID handshake determines what signal the source will output. During the handshake it will determine that your TV does not accept DTS or any format other than stereo, so the handshake will default the switch to stereo.

Newer TV's can carry 5.1 from the toslink out, not sure how old is your TV.

Best bet is a HDMI receiver.

DownhillGoat · 11-04-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Here's a couple that might fit your needs on a quick search although I don't have experience with them.

Soundsaround has the step up from that Denon (AVR-1612) for $328.
Well worth the extra $50 for beefier speaker connections on the back (the spring loaded style on the 1312 have a tendency to pop out), and the Audyssey EQ setup.

TorqueDog · 11-06-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Newer TV's can carry 5.1 from the toslink out, not sure how old is your TV.

Yes and no, it depends on the source. HDCP will only allow the audio/video to be sent through a secure digital channel (HDMI cable).

For example, if you attempt hook up a Bluray player directly to your TV wth HDMI, but then send the audio out via TOSlink from the TV to a receiver, you'll only be getting two-channel stereo out of the optical. The receiver can matrix that into 5.1 or 7.1 using Dolby Pro Logic/PLII or DTS Neo 6, but it isn't the real deal.

oilyfan · 11-06-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yes and no

Well if you hook up an OTA antenna and receive a digital HD signal with 5.1 it will output 5.1 from the optical out.

Yes in most cases, like a bluray player connected to the tv using HDMI will not output 5.1 because the handshake prevents the player from outputting anything other than 5.1. But in the case of devices where you can "force" the handshake off, like in an XBOX 360 or Boxee Box, you can get the TV to output 5.1.

TorqueDog · 11-07-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Well if you hook up an OTA antenna and receive a digital HD signal with 5.1 it will output 5.1 from the optical out.

Yes in most cases, like a bluray player connected to the tv using HDMI will not output 5.1 because the handshake prevents the player from outputting anything other than 5.1. But in the case of devices where you can "force" the handshake off, like in an XBOX 360 or Boxee Box, you can get the TV to output 5.1.

I seem to recall the older Xbox 360s didn't use HDCP, but the Slim consoles do.

oilyfan · 11-07-2011, 10:42 AM

All current Xbox's have HDMI, which has HDCP

MickMcGeough · 11-07-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Well if you hook up an OTA antenna and receive a digital HD signal with 5.1 it will output 5.1 from the optical out.

Yes in most cases, like a bluray player connected to the tv using HDMI will not output 5.1 because the handshake prevents the player from outputting anything other than 5.1. But in the case of devices where you can "force" the handshake off, like in an XBOX 360 or Boxee Box, you can get the TV to output 5.1.

Primary sources are a Mac Mini (with Plex) and a Telus Optik HD-PVR. I'm not sure about forcing the handshake off on either of these, but my receiver definitely decodes Dolby Digital passed from the TV from both sources.

I'm not 100% sure that it's 5.1 - is there a DD 2.0 standard it might be using?

TorqueDog · 11-07-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

Primary sources are a Mac Mini (with Plex) and a Telus Optik HD-PVR. I'm not sure about forcing the handshake off on either of these, but my receiver definitely decodes Dolby Digital passed from the TV from both sources.

I'm not 100% sure that it's 5.1 - is there a DD 2.0 standard it might be using?

Easiest way to tell is to use 'straight' mode on the receiver (Yamaha's wording, other manufacturers have other ways of saying the same thing). This turns off all the additional sound processing (like Dolby ProLogic matrixing) and uses the signal as it was delivered.

If you put it into 'Straight' and you only get sound from the front two channels, then you know it's DD 2.0. If you get sound out of the satellites, it's Dolby Digital 5.1.

My receiver - if a Dolby Digital or DTS signal is detected - will automatically put the receiver into 'Straight' and disable the additional sound processing so that the audio is reproduced as was intended.

DownhillGoat · 11-07-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

If you put it into 'Straight' and you only get sound from the front two channels, then you know it's DD 2.0. If you get sound out of the satellites, it's Dolby Digital 5.1.

That depends on the AVR. When I throw my Denon in direct mode it only does 2.0.

oilyfan · 11-07-2011, 02:30 PM

You might have success with a device such as this: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=8005

It will force the EDID and if the TV has the ability to send 5.1 through optical, it will.

The issue is that it $129, and I think you will need one for each input into the TV. You are better off buying a HDMI switching receiver.

TorqueDog · 11-07-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

That depends on the AVR. When I throw my Denon in direct mode it only does 2.0.

I'm not sure what 'Straight' is called on the Denon, but there should be a mode for it that doesn't force everything to 2 channel.

But yeah Mick, just buy an HDMI receiver at this point.