Canada tables bill to scrap long-gun registry

[burn_this_city]

The poll was conducted by an online group that only police officers can join. It's likely the closest thing you can get to a sample of their true beliefs. Lets just say I'm less inclined to listen to the police chiefs, they will take anything they can legally get to track weapons and people

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If we're going to abolish the long gun registry, I think that there really needs to be a review on sentencing for vioent crimes involving guns.

Its unlikely that most gun crimes involve weapons that have been legally bought and registered, and its going to be impossible to shut down the gun smuggling from the States and Asia.

I just think that a gun crime should automatically be a 25 year minimum sentence with no chance of parole for 15 years.

Any criminal thats willing to use a gun is a criminal that had to work to get a gun and deliberately planned to use that gun whether for intimidation or killing.

Gun toting criminals are not your standard criminals, they've stepped over a very large line in the sand.

Do you agree with that kind of sentence for that farmer (can't recall the name now, sorry) who was shooting at people stealing his ATV here in Alberta?

I understand the point of this way of thinking, but it creates a system where the crimes are judged equally when in fact they may not be equal at all.

[jar_e]

FWIW, CPS Chief Rick Hanson has been critical of the registry before, stating that criminals don't register guns.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Just wondering how people here view the comments that many of the law enforcement agencies make regarding keeping the registry? I know that its long been derided as a white elephant and things like that, but when the experts who deal with this say its a very useful tool I just can't see why there is a rush to scrap it.

I'll stick with what our own Police Chief said.
I'm paraphrasing of course but the jist was, that the registry wasn't very useful for officers checking to see if there are guns in a home, becuase officers should be treating every home as if it has guns in it. The registry is a list of houses that MAY have guns in them, not a list of houses that don't.

If there is no certainty to it, then it really isn't that useful.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Do you agree with that kind of sentence for that farmer (can't recall the name now, sorry) who was shooting at people stealing his ATV here in Alberta?

I understand the point of this way of thinking, but it creates a system where the crimes are judged equally when in fact they may not be equal at all.

I don't know if I was clear in that thread. But what seperated that guy from a guy defending his home is that he became an armed vigilante, and I really think that makes him very dangerous. He was the guy that literally took a controllable situation and spun it right out of control.

I don't view him as a hero.

I don't know if we have to have degrees of violent crimes as part of the sentencing structure. But I was happy that there was a punative punishment component for this guy, he was stupid and angry and armed and that to me is a dangerous combination.

But was it premediated and planned, probably not.

However if I remember right his handgun was registered, but I could be wrong about that, and maybe that should be the differeence.

The long gun registry was next to worthless, and replicated other systems that were in place, and really didn't address the problem of violent gun grime especially with un registered weapons.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if I was clear in that thread. But what seperated that guy from a guy defending his home is that he became an armed vigilante, and I really think that makes him very dangerous. He was the guy that literally took a controllable situation and spun it right out of control.

I don't view him as a hero.

I don't know if we have to have degrees of violent crimes as part of the sentencing structure. But I was happy that there was a punative punishment component for this guy, he was stupid and angry and armed and that to me is a dangerous combination.

But was it premediated and planned, probably not.

However if I remember right his handgun was registered, but I could be wrong about that, and maybe that should be the differeence.

The long gun registry was next to worthless, and replicated other systems that were in place, and really didn't address the problem of violent gun grime especially with un registered weapons.

I don't know all of the facts in the case or anything. I just know that if someone breaks into a house and you shoot them you shouldn't be sentenced in the same vein as a guy rolling around doing drive-by shootings.

Anyway, I'm not going to bother arguing about the abolition of the gun registry. It seems counter-intuitive, but it is what it is.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jar_e

FWIW, CPS Chief Rick Hanson has been critical of the registry before, stating that criminals don't register guns.

That is what I don't understand. Criminals won't register their guns so how exactly will it help prevent criminals from committing gun related crimes?

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk

[wookster]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would agree with that except that some people obviously use pistols for sport shooting and hobbies.

But I agree that all military style semi-auto's should be restricted. I saw a guy go hunting with an FN-C1-A1 with the full 30 round clip, I don't see the point of it as a hunting rifle as it will basically obliterate anything that you shoot.

I've also seen people with the semi-auto hobby version of the Ak-47 (surprised me that you could but that), and I guess it doesn't take much to do a full auto convert for it.

I used to own one, it wasn't actually called an AK-47 though, even though it looked exactly like one (my version had a folding stock). I can't remember the model designation, it was something like PZ...and then some numbers. It was made in Czechoslovakia and was chambered for .223 calibre (5.56mm) and was pretty cheap in the day. I paid $289.00 for it in the mid 80's, but you get what you pay for...it jammed constantly. A friend of mine bought one at the same time and his used to sometimes fire off 2-3 rounds per trigger pull, even though it was supposed to be semi-auto only. Eventually traded it off and purchased a Colt AR-15 rifle, that thing was a dream to shoot and amazingly accurate once you got used to the sighting system. My brother also had a Ruger Mini-14 rifle and we had a couple other semi-auto rifles as well that would be classified as assault rifles today, these rifles were all .223 calibre and we used to be able to buy cases of ammunition for cheap (about $50 a case) from the military base at Alsask Sask. before it closed down.

Used the rifles purely for sport, they were a blast to shoot. Sold them when I moved to Calgary (although I believe the Mini-14 is still out at the farm) I wasn't really able to use them here and since we have to now buy ammunition over the counter it is now rediculously expensive.

I'm glad the gun registry is being scrapped as it was a joke and in my opinion it really only punished legal, law abiding gun owners and not criminals.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

Just wondering how people here view the comments that many of the law enforcement agencies make regarding keeping the registry? I know that its long been derided as a white elephant and things like that, but when the experts who deal with this say its a very useful tool I just can't see why there is a rush to scrap it.

Front line police officers say different.

"Never have I attended a killing where the registry of any of the weapons would have prevented that killing from occurring," said Dave Shipman, a retired 25-year veteran of the Winnipeg city police, who investigated violent crimes and homicides.

"The long-gun registry is not working to prevent gun crime, as it was intended. Criminals, including gang members, do not register their stolen or smuggled guns that are being used to wage war in our cities."

Shipman's retired former colleague, 33-year police veteran Jack Tinsley, said the issue has driven a wedge between what he calls "front-line officers" and the police leaders who "are perhaps not in touch with what is really taking place on the street on a day-to-day basis."

http://www.canada.com/news/Police+ri...482/story.html

[Dion]

An Edmonton Police Constable's survey of officers coast to coast finds 92-percent of them want Parliament to scrap the long gun registry.

Constable Randy Kuntz is quoted in the Canadian Shooting Sports Association's newsletter as saying he hopes to expose the grave mistake that the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is making by supporting the registry. The Chief's annual conference begins in Edmonton on Sunday.

"The CACP is not some mindless group of misguided men and women who strive to oppress." Kuntz says. "They simply have this one matter very wrong."

Kuntz also believes the Chiefs Association is misrepresenting the facts by continually claiming that a massive majority of police officers support the registry.

"They claim that they speak for all police officers on this matter. I think I have shown that they don't."

More than 2,600 officers from across Canada responded when Kuntz asked if they supported the gun registry as a useful working tool for front line police. He says 2,410 said the registry is useless as a crime fighting tool and many believe it poses a danger to police.

"Most of the respondents were constables and sergeants/detectives - guys and gals with their boots on the pavement, so to speak. They're the cops that the public meets and deals with on a daily basis."

http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg...spx?id=1267498

[Northendzone]

and here i was worrind that the government wasted billions of dollars coming up with this, i guess i can quit worrying and move into acceptance of them losing the billions/trillions/gazillions.....

[BlackEleven]

Does anyone know how much it costs to maintain the registry? I think we're all aware of the mind-boggling sums of money that were spent getting it up and running, but is it actually expensive just to keep the program running now that it's already been established?

Perhaps as someone who never has owned a gun and never intends to I'm a bit naive about the subject, but it seems to me that it may actually be worth keeping if it doesn't cost all that much to maintain even if its use is only somewhat helpful to law enforcement.

[Azure]

$60 million or something per year I think it costs to run the program.

[You Need a Thneed]

How did anyone think that it was only going to cost $1 million to set up when it started?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The poll was conducted by an online group that only police officers can join. It's likely the closest thing you can get to a sample of their true beliefs. Lets just say I'm less inclined to listen to the police chiefs, they will take anything they can legally get to track weapons and people

Try asking a police chief if he would rather have the registery or an extra cop and you will get a better view, right now you are asking the chief if he wants something that is free, of course he will say yes, even if it is of absoloutly minimal use to him, ask him if he wants to pay for the service and then you will be able to tell if it has any use.

[Cheese]

"Somewhere in Ottawa PM Stephen Harper stands up from his chair, puffs out out his chest, and gives it the good ole Tarzan thump and howl".

[jayswin]

I just can't believe there's someone in this thread in favour of the gun registry.

[SebC]

Tough on pot, soft on guns.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

Just wondering how people here view the comments that many of the law enforcement agencies make regarding keeping the registry? I know that its long been derided as a white elephant and things like that, but when the experts who deal with this say its a very useful tool I just can't see why there is a rush to scrap it.

I would tend to trust the officers out on the streets who use the registry on a daily basis. It's a shame the agencies didn't poll it's rank and file officers.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I just can't believe there's someone in this thread in favour of the gun registry.

ya I know it's a calgary board and all but unless you've had your head stuck in the sand politics wise you would know that most canadians do not want to see this scrapped, even the last postmedia poll I saw was pretty one sided.... digging.... here:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/10...registry-poll/

not personally really a line in the sand issue but there's not really any debate that this legislation is running contrary to popular opinion