10-21-2011, 07:41 AM
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#361
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CP Pontiff
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: A pasture out by Millarville
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Signs of change - Tea Party or Occupy Wall St.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Si...234/story.html
Cowperson
__________________
Dear Lord, help me to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am. - Anonymous
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10-21-2011, 08:15 AM
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#362
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan02
the part where both links you posted specifically state they didn't buy bad mortgages.
What's your take on 9/11??
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They were mortgage backed securities, basically a basket of crappy mortgages. It doesn't matter if you don't understand this part, just realize that our debt went up to put the banks in a better spot. We were the buyer of last resort for these assets and now we Canadians will take the loss if our housing market takes a dive.
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10-21-2011, 01:23 PM
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#363
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#1 Goaltender
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Audio link for those interested - Q with Jian Gomeshi, his opening essay this morning:
The Occupation
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10-24-2011, 04:08 PM
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#365
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Franchise Player
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These guys in Edmonton have now begun to piss me off. Melcor granted them the right to stay on their property this entire time, graciously I might add, and now they are finally asking them to leave. But they are refusing to leave. Their message loses some muster IMO when they start to become scofflaws themselves and trespass on property after being asked to leave.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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10-24-2011, 04:24 PM
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#366
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: in your blind spot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedogger
We bought bad mortgages from them paid for by an increased deficit that we all owe. What part did I miss?
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No where does it say they were "bad" mortgages
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedogger
They were mortgage backed securities, basically a basket of crappy mortgages. It doesn't matter if you don't understand this part, just realize that our debt went up to put the banks in a better spot. We were the buyer of last resort for these assets and now we Canadians will take the loss if our housing market takes a dive.
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They were CMHC backed mortgages. In other words, if there was a default CMHC was going to cover the loss anyways.
So before the purchase: CMHC (a crown corporation) is on the hook for defaults
After the purchase: the Canadian Gov't is on the hook for defaults.
It is pretty much the same thing - you and I are on the hook in the case of a default.
This transaction was made so that the banks would no longer have $75 Billion tied up. They now had an additional $75 Billion to loan so that helped free up the constriction in the lending markets. Now the Canadian Government gets the money back as the mortgages are paid off.
It was not a "bail-out". The Canadian government did not accept any bad debt beyond what they were already on the hook for.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
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The Following User Says Thank You to Bobblehead For This Useful Post:
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10-24-2011, 04:44 PM
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#367
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_fan
These guys in Edmonton have now begun to piss me off. Melcor granted them the right to stay on their property this entire time, graciously I might add, and now they are finally asking them to leave. But they are refusing to leave. Their message loses some muster IMO when they start to become scofflaws themselves and trespass on property after being asked to leave.
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They should start invoicing them for rent, and when they don't pay they can reposses their possesions.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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10-24-2011, 06:05 PM
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#368
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#1 Goaltender
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Martin Luther King was asked to leave the whites-only restaurant in October 1961. Do you think his message lost its muster because he was trespassing on property after being asked to leave? Or is it that you agree with King's message and disagree with the occupiers?
People seem to come down hard on civil disobedience (i.e. "if they wanted to be taken seriously, they shouldn't be breaking the law") when it has been used as a tool by many respected change makers.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Devils'Advocate For This Useful Post:
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10-24-2011, 06:15 PM
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#369
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehead
No where does it say they were "bad" mortgages
They were CMHC backed mortgages. In other words, if there was a default CMHC was going to cover the loss anyways.
So before the purchase: CMHC (a crown corporation) is on the hook for defaults
After the purchase: the Canadian Gov't is on the hook for defaults.
It is pretty much the same thing - you and I are on the hook in the case of a default.
This transaction was made so that the banks would no longer have $75 Billion tied up. They now had an additional $75 Billion to loan so that helped free up the constriction in the lending markets. Now the Canadian Government gets the money back as the mortgages are paid off.
It was not a "bail-out". The Canadian government did not accept any bad debt beyond what they were already on the hook for.
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Sure that's what they tried to sells this POS as. Instead we saw the banks use the money freed up to purchase several assets abroad. Mostly troubled US banks south of our border.
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10-24-2011, 06:30 PM
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#370
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate
Martin Luther King was asked to leave the whites-only restaurant in October 1961. Do you think his message lost its muster because he was trespassing on property after being asked to leave? Or is it that you agree with King's message and disagree with the occupiers?
People seem to come down hard on civil disobedience (i.e. "if they wanted to be taken seriously, they shouldn't be breaking the law") when it has been used as a tool by many respected change makers.
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I think some causes are more important than others. To equate the occupiers with MLK is ridiculous. You should just call big corporations Nazis and go full godwin.
__________________
Last edited by corporatejay; 10-25-2011 at 09:30 AM.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to corporatejay For This Useful Post:
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10-24-2011, 06:39 PM
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#371
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
I think some causes are more important than others.
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That's what some people thought with MLK!
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10-24-2011, 06:42 PM
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#372
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate
Martin Luther King was asked to leave the whites-only restaurant in October 1961. Do you think his message lost its muster because he was trespassing on property after being asked to leave? Or is it that you agree with King's message and disagree with the occupiers?
People seem to come down hard on civil disobedience (i.e. "if they wanted to be taken seriously, they shouldn't be breaking the law") when it has been used as a tool by many respected change makers.
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Would you want these occupiers to stay on your own personal property after asking them politely to leave? It's private property.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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10-24-2011, 06:45 PM
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#373
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedogger
Sure that's what they tried to sells this POS as. Instead we saw the banks use the money freed up to purchase several assets abroad. Mostly troubled US banks south of our border.
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So the government bought up the investments to free up money in the banking system and then the banks went out and actually used then money?? that's f'd. They should have got in touch with Scrooge McDuck contractors to build them a massive vault hold their money and bath in. Let's just hope this time they don't build it on a roller ball arena!!!
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10-24-2011, 08:20 PM
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#374
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan02
So the government bought up the investments to free up money in the banking system and then the banks went out and actually used then money?? that's f'd. They should have got in touch with Scrooge McDuck contractors to build them a massive vault hold their money and bath in. Let's just hope this time they don't build it on a roller ball arena!!!
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Don't get me started on Roller Ball!
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10-25-2011, 01:41 AM
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#375
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate
Martin Luther King was asked to leave the whites-only restaurant in October 1961. Do you think his message lost its muster because he was trespassing on property after being asked to leave? Or is it that you agree with King's message and disagree with the occupiers?
People seem to come down hard on civil disobedience (i.e. "if they wanted to be taken seriously, they shouldn't be breaking the law") when it has been used as a tool by many respected change makers.
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Of course MLK wanted a cup of coffee, 30 minutes max, not to camp out in the resteraunt for several weeks while pissing and moaning about capitalism, all the while updating his facebook status using a killer app on his Iphone.
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10-25-2011, 03:53 AM
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#376
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
I think some causes are more important than others. To equate the occupiers with MLK is ridiculous. You should just cause big corporations Nazis and go full godwin.
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I didn't equate them.
I asked why people disparage those using civil disobedience now when it has been used for important causes in the past. I asked the same question in one of the Greenpeace threads and again people said I was "equating". I'm not at all. I'm asking if people are condemning civil disobedience because they are 100% against people breaking the law for a political purpose, or if they are 100% against people breaking the law for a political purpose that they are not totally in agreement with?
My question really has nothing to do with the occupiers movement... my question is how do you gauge when civil disobedience is appropriate or not?
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10-25-2011, 08:05 AM
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#377
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate
My question really has nothing to do with the occupiers movement... my question is how do you gauge when civil disobedience is appropriate or not?
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Can you really call a bunch of homeless people occupying a public space civil disobedience?
I can support 'honest' civil disobedience. Not jobless and homeless 'protesters' looking for more handouts.
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10-25-2011, 08:53 AM
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#378
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toledo OH
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Are people still talking about this? Flavor of last week, I think.
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10-25-2011, 09:37 AM
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#379
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Norm!
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Its not civil disobedience if the person gives you permission to use the spot rent free on a temporary basis, and then when he states the time is up, you refuse to leave.
Civil disobedience would have been to seize the spot probably by force.
What these people are doing is squatting.
Its like going to a protest and crying for free condoms, thats not civil disobedience, its gross.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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10-25-2011, 09:42 AM
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#380
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Its not civil disobedience if the person gives you permission to use the spot rent free on a temporary basis, and then when he states the time is up, you refuse to leave.
Civil disobedience would have been to seize the spot probably by force.
What these people are doing is squatting.
Its like going to a protest and crying for free condoms, thats not civil disobedience, its gross.
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You might like this. http://www.corymorgan.com/?p=546
Last edited by First Lady; 10-25-2011 at 09:44 AM.
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