Is the Reserve System for Native Peoples Broken?

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Well, this thread is pretty reflective of how I looked at this issue as a younger man.. but the truth is I had no exposure to the truth. I had only experienced the drunk/wasted homeless native stereotype on the train, read about bands resisting development in order to "get more", heard rumours about kids getting $20,000 cheques when they turned 18 just so they could go out and buy a truck and then crash it within 6 months.

I had also heard whispers about a people who lived a kind of life that had it connected deeply with Nature, but that way of life was dying...

Those things aren't truths - they are symptoms.. outcomes.

There are two things I think about when reading this thread.

First, regarding the comments on apartheid, there is a connection in that the South African apartheid system was modelled on the Canadian Reserve system. Interesting paper on it from the U of A can be found here:
http://ualberta.academia.edu/mariaca...tion_In_a_Word

So in some sense, it may be an intuitive leap that people are making... as one lead into the other, and if the essence of both systems are common, how different can they really be? I think we can all look at this and question the intent of the reserve system in our country and wonder how things aren't worse than they are.

The second is that as I get older, meet more people, see more things, get more experience with business (particularly development of major capital projects), get more exposure to law (specifically the protection of the right to own property - a fundamental component to our society), and develop emotionally/spiritually/metaphysically, the more my perspective on this issue changes.

I know many Natives that are enterprising, intelligent, fun, successful, great parents, and wonderful people. They are among my favourite people to work with, and spend time with and contemplate what life is about.

One young guy I am starting to get to know a bit better shed some interesting light on things for me. He was explaining his company and how he wants to build a small plant on his reserve to produce what he sells instead of buying it from the States. His family has been at it for YEARS because the reserve is still crown land and there is no clear/clean legal process to secure the development permits to do the construction they want to do. He went on to say maybe it is because it is an industrial process, but even a friend of his who wants to build a simple mixed use strip mall/condo development can't proceed for the same reasons. This was surprising to me... I had no idea.

The reserve system does give Natives some recongition on what was "theirs", and gives some small rights/ability to recover compensation for development, but its ineffective and seems like just enough to keep the rest of the world from saying its abuse. It reminds me of when an employer keeps shuffling a person around, marginalizing them until the employee gets so fed up they quit. Its like our government wants the Native population to "quit" - and it sure seems like it could be working.

I think there could be changes to the current systems in place that allowed Natives to become a bigger part of our culture and the conversation of day to day life. Quite honestly, there is a lot of philosophy and insight into who we are and what our place is in the Universe that Western Civilization could benefit from having integrated into our way of life but that's just my opinion.

Couldn't he build the small plant off reserve?

[wookster]

I don't really see how removing Reservations destroys whats left of their culture? I don't believe Reservations were part of their culture to begin with, they were a concession from the government for land lost etc a long time ago. I am all for them retaining their culture as I'm a firm believer in not forgetting where you came from. Other cultures thrive in Canada, take the Hutterites for example. They retain their own culture, have their own schools and churches, but also thrive and interact as part of the community. They were helped by the government when they first came over, things like not having to pay taxes etc. but now that they are firmly established and prosperus, they now pay taxes and can enjoy what Canada has to offer (like health care) but also contribute to keeping it that way.

Unfortunately the First Nation's old ways of "living off the land" etc. are gone forever and I also believe they are well aware of that fact. But they are also in a cycle that is hard to get out of because I think getting rid of the Reservation system and actually stop giving them "free" money as well would actually help them in the long run. If done properly and given enough time, they could be just as successful and prosperus as other cultures in Canada.

Of course they have to want to as well, and it seems to me that the people in charge are the ones that seem to be getting the majority of the money coming in to them so there probably would be some reluctance for change from the top. Like what was mentioned before, it would be interesting to see an audit of where that money goes...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Azure

That isn't my point. In order to initiate change, the government will have to take it upon themselves to push through those changes. Because as it stands, the 'leaders' of the Native community are often those who have become wealthy by taking advantage of the system, and therefore they will do their best to make sure nothing changes.

#OccupyChiefsHouse

[Rathji]

I will just say that the fact that the Criminal Justice system and Child Protective Services (among others) are predominately filled with native populations - maybe 40% +, I dont recall exact numbers - means that something sure the hell is broke for the natives.

And it isn't only their fault.

[Tinordi]

This conversation needs to be rooted in a deep understanding of history.

[Devils'Advocate]

In talking with some of the aboriginal on Bear Island in northern Ontario, they are most upset that they CAN'T live off the land. Their traditional hunting grounds are on the mainland, not on the island. Same with their farming land. The island is too small to sustain the population if they are living off the land. Right now the aboriginese have 1 square mile of reserve whereas their traditional hunting area was 4000 sq miles. They are trying to negotiate with the province for about 100 sq miles such that they CAN go back to a more traditional lifestyle of hunting/fishing/agriculture. So I don't think we can say that their old ways are absolutely "gone forever", save for that they use guns now rather than spears.

The ones I have spoken with don't want a hand out... they want the opportunity to live within their community, sharing their culture and traditions. The Hutterites have been fortunate to have very good farmland and now have the money to purchase MORE land. Many native reserves are on hard rocky land or swamps (http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/?id=8356) .

[Resolute 14]

The Hutterites also buy the land with their own money and pay taxes. If such native communities wish to do the same (and under the same modified rules), then more power to them.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

This conversation needs to be rooted in a deep understanding of history.

That's a great way for it to go nowhere.

History is in the history books. It's time to look and move forward. The current path is a train wreck.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Personally, I think the best way to remove the reserve system is to move off the land and give the whole country back to them.

It's funny... we watch movies like "Dances with Wolves" and think how absolutely horrible the slaughter of the native peoples were. But we think absolutely nothing about destroying what little of their culture is left and forcing them to assimilate to our way of life. Sucks to be them. I really think that if it were you or I several hundred years ago we would make the exact same choices to kill, conquer and conform the aboriginals.

-=-=-=-=-=-
I'll certainly agree with the above post stating that there should be some accounting of the money the government gives to the reserves. If something is worth doing (ensuring that the aboriginal people have the means to live dignified lives within their unique culture and lifestyle) then it is worth doing right (ensuring that the resources given don't end up being siphoned off to the leadership while the general populace suffers).

A lot of people in Canada retain their culture without getting special status from the government.

No reason it should be any different for Natives.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The Hutterites have been fortunate to have very good farmland and now have the money to purchase MORE land. Many native reserves are on hard rocky land or swamps (http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/?id=8356) .

The Hutterites don't get special status from the government outside of a different way to pay taxes, and some different privileges in terms of education. Mostly because of the fact that they live in a community.

The land they own was bought and paid for, and they don't get free hand outs from the government.

Yet, they have still kept their culture and way of life for over 100 years now in North America.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Azure

A lot of people in Canada retain their culture without getting special status from the government.

No reason it should be any different for Natives.

With aboriginal people we're talking about a totally different way of life, not just living like a regular Canadian and then going to church on the weekends. You're also totally ignoring the history of the situation. We are all on land that at some point belonged to aboriginal people, until they were killed.

Apples and oranges.

[Tinordi]

Shhh history isn't important. Haven't you heard?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by blankall

With aboriginal people we're talking about a totally different way of life, not just living like a regular Canadian and then going to church on the weekends. You're also totally ignoring the history of the situation. We are all on land that at some point belonged to aboriginal people, until they were killed.

Apples and oranges.

All of us have ancestors who lived off the land at some point. Time changes for everyone.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

All of us have ancestors who lived off the land at some point. Time changes for everyone.

Are you honestly going to tell me the world has nothing to gain by allowing aboriginal people to preserve a portion of their way of life.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I honestly don't think your post could have more racist stereotypes if it tried. Honestly, they're all there, save for inhalant abuse.

For the most part I just know what I learned from my Jr Braves leader, he had a limited grasp of Native culture (insert un able to find clip here).

[Calgaryborn]

I think the land is the big issue in all of this. When Canada became a nation it promised England to honour all of its treaties and obligations. For most of the tribes there is lawsuits on going to claim back what they promised. Until those issues are resolved I don't think Canada can do much in the way of breaking up the reservation system.

The difference between apartheid and the reservation systems is that apartheid was started to protect white settlers from blacks. In Canada at least the reserve system was begun to protect natives from white settlers. There were excesses in both systems(see residentual schools) but, certainly the Canadian system has been kinder and at least remained better intended.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

In talking with some of the aboriginal on Bear Island in northern Ontario, they are most upset that they CAN'T live off the land. Their traditional hunting grounds are on the mainland, not on the island. Same with their farming land. The island is too small to sustain the population if they are living off the land. Right now the aboriginese have 1 square mile of reserve whereas their traditional hunting area was 4000 sq miles. They are trying to negotiate with the province for about 100 sq miles such that they CAN go back to a more traditional lifestyle of hunting/fishing/agriculture. So I don't think we can say that their old ways are absolutely "gone forever", save for that they use guns now rather than spears.

The ones I have spoken with don't want a hand out... they want the opportunity to live within their community, sharing their culture and traditions. The Hutterites have been fortunate to have very good farmland and now have the money to purchase MORE land. Many native reserves are on hard rocky land or swamps (http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/?id=8356) .

That's the thing, people were packed onto reserves which were made up of useless land because it was the least valuable. In the 1800s a white male could simply claim 160 acres for themselves as part of the pre-emption system. All that was required was that they make modest improvements on it to maintain ownership. Many extended families claimed up thousands of acres of adjoining plots and in many instances as few as 10 members of an extended family who pre-empted land would have as much land to use for themselves as Native tribes made up of 3000-4000 people.

People like to say history doesn't matter, but many of those reserve boundaries are identical to what they were 150 years ago while the land around them is worth billions.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by blankall

Are you honestly going to tell me the world has nothing to gain by allowing aboriginal people to preserve a portion of their way of life.

It's romantic but sustainability is an issue in our modern world where man with modern tools can easily devastate the ecological balance in an area quite quickly through hunting.

It seems counter-intuitive but most of the hunting in North America is actually kept sustainable by hunters and the fees they pay to hunting organizations.

Ducks Unlimited for example is not an environmental group. They are a hunting organization that takes the fees from hunters and spends it in sustaining the ecological balance of ecosystems to ensure that hunters have a place to hunt.

Of course, to be PC, we cannot charge aboriginals fees and licenses to hunt when they claim it as a native right so that won't be a feasible solution. IIRC, there was actually a court case a few years ago against some aboriginal hunters who were hunting at night with flashlights and some of the court arguments were about how this did not qualify as a traditional hunting practice.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by blankall

Are you honestly going to tell me the world has nothing to gain by allowing aboriginal people to preserve a portion of their way of life.

The way of life you are talking about died centuries ago. A community could follow the Hutterite example, buy up large tracts of land and live off an agrarian based economy.

But the nomadic practices of many native tribes is impractical in the modern era. Nor will you ever see anyone running down a buffalo on horseback with a bow or a gun any more.

Pretending that things can ever go back to something resembling the way they were before "we" showed up is of no use or benefit.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It's romantic but sustainability is an issue in our modern world where man with modern tools can easily devastate the ecological balance in an area quite quickly through hunting.

It seems counter-intuitive but most of the hunting in North America is actually kept sustainable by hunters and the fees they pay to hunting organizations.

Ducks Unlimited for example is not an environmental group. They are a hunting organization that takes the fees from hunters and spends it in sustaining the ecological balance of ecosystems to ensure that hunters have a place to hunt.

Of course, to be PC, we cannot charge aboriginals fees and licenses to hunt when they claim it as a native right so that won't be a feasible solution. IIRC, there was actually a court case a few years ago against some aboriginal hunters who were hunting at night with flashlights and some of the court arguments were about how this did not qualify as a traditional hunting practice.

Are you really going to say that aboriginals hunting a few animals is the main problem right now with sustainability?

Are you sure it's not our modern society filled with billions of people all consuming everything they see?