Occupy Calgary/Do Not Merge

[Daradon]

Oct. 15th. St. Patrick's Island

DO NOT MERGE

I know this is an extension of the Occupy Wall Street thread, but it is important and local enough to warrant it's own.

I know there are many in this community that think it ridiculous to protest in this city for this cause. I was one of those.

I think the biggest problem I had was, 'what is this cause exactly?'

And I can't answer that for you.

But we do know there are problems.

Let me relate mine. Which actually have a lot to do with why I stayed with this community.

I signed up here in the spring of 04, to join the run. I got referred by a few (legendary ) members.

The fun ended that summer, but I got sucked in by the off topic forum. There were a lot of smart and opinionated people here. More than most forums. Heck, more than most political forums. Credit to Bingo and all the mods, even today you can't go on NationalPost.com or whatever and get talk like that.

Because of the wars the US had waged, I got caught immediately. I was pro Afghan war, but anti Iraq war, a position that sometimes became hard to clarify. The reason? Afghan was UN agreed and NATO led, facts were obvious. I had actually (elsewhere) begun talking about Afghanistan when they blew up the Buddist statues and took away the TV's. Iraq, on the other hand, was justified by a president. And on means we now know to be false.

For those of that weren't here for it, I argued vehemently against the proof of WMD's. I got slammed by several senior posters. And I wasn't just throwing conspiracies (though I may have indulged when things got ugly) but I argued facts. I was eventually vindicated (on that and other topics).

So many asked me, especially if I find so much wrong with the system, and the values, of the nation below us, why do I care? And I will tell you the same answer I told those posters back in 2004.


Because 'as the US goes, so goes Canada,'.


Their problem is our problem. And now you see why I have changed my mind on this protest.

No, our government isn't as controlled by lobbies. No, our banks aren't as susceptible to tampering and greed. And no, I don't think our culture is, (from the mom buying liquid marshmallow, to the superstar who was famous for being born into a rich family) as corrupt as there's.

There are many differences. But they are our biggest trade partner. They affect our culture more than anyone. What happens there, will happen here. And so, their problems, are our problems.

And while we have fared well in the economic downturn, we know things aren't fair here. The gap between the rich and the poor widens here too. There are corporations here that need to be taken to task for employee abuse, pollution, etc. Politicians get more under the table than they ever did. I grew up in the Mulroney years, and he was investigated by the RCMP. And he countered sued and won! Since then, Chretien and Harper have been accused of worse. The evil of the lobby exists here, and the unfair pull of the corporation exists here. Things are better here, but they are far from rosy.

And so I ask all of you to join me on Oct. 15th at St. Patrick's Island to exercise democracy and dissent. It may seem like it's not our problem, but let's not get to the point of America (Greece/Italy/Iceland) to find out. Let's be responsible.

Thank you,
D

For those that want to bring groups, please PM me for more personal info.

Below are links, but as with Calgary it looks shabby. The main page was apparently attacked and blocked (yeah, I don't know if I believe it either) If you don't get replies, please contact me. Let's break Calgary's reputation!

http://occupycalgary.ca/

[Bigtime]

So you guys are protesting on St. Patrick's Island? The Frisbee golfers and "cruisers" aren't going to like that.

[The Goon]

Is this a protest of US banking policy? I'm trying to understand the goal.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Is this a protest of US banking policy? I'm trying to understand the goal.

As above, I can't tell you what this is supposed to mean to you. That is the biggest problem I had following the movement down south.

And to tell you the truth, I can't blame it on the banks. As a senior and smart poster said here, 'you can't blame the lions, if you didn't close the cage.'

But we need to tell the politicians we are aware of the lobbies. Their deals to get elected. The loopholes they give corporations. The backroom dealings for campaign funds in the guise of democracy.

This can mean whatever you want to you. But it's about being aware of the system that you pay into, vote for, and are a part of. It's about being aware of eroding democracy. It's about decreasing budgets for education and health, while tax breaks go to corporations. It's about being aware of the increasing gap between the mega rich and you.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Daradon

As above, I can't tell you what this is supposed to mean to you. That is the biggest problem I had following the movement down south.

I guess what he is asking is what does this mean to you. I didn't get it either; and saw somebody else had asked for clarification.

[Cowperson]

The Milquetoast Radicals . . . Occupy Thyself . . . . . a prescient column by David Brooks today in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/op...s.html?_r=1&hp

Cowperson

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I guess what he is asking is what does this mean to you. I didn't get it either; and saw somebody else had asked for clarification.

As I did. But, as I said above, TO ME, it means not following the US in their failed economic plan. It means having a voice and reminding those elected they work for us. It means keeping the government honest and on their toes.

I mean sh*t... can you imagine if there was a meaningful protest in Calgary? The economic (and PC) center of Canada? That would actually mean something. And be one for the books.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

The Milquetoast Radicals . . . Occupy Thyself . . . . . a prescient column by David Brooks today in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/op...s.html?_r=1&hp

Cowperson

Hmmm, a baby boomer arguing against new protests saying they are cliche... Saying they are nothing like past protests. Saying they are ill founded and don't mean much.

How unexpected.

'Don’t be fooled by the clichés of protest movements past. The most radical people today are the ones that look the most boring. It’s not about declaring war on some nefarious elite. It’s about changing behavior from top to bottom. Let’s occupy ourselves.'

I wonder what writers in the 60's said about Vietnam protesters. I wonder how important the old white people set in their ways thought about the civil rights movements for African Americans and women.

It's a good article Cow, but how do YOU feel about it?

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Daradon

It's a good article Cow, but how do YOU feel about it?

If the other topic about the #Occupy(place) movement was an indication, Cowperson is pretty against the basis of it and believes that the regulators, not the banks, need to be worked on.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by kirant

If the other topic about the #Occupy(place) movement was an indication, Cowperson is pretty against the basis of it and believes that the regulators, not the banks, need to be worked on.

And I actually gave him kudos on that in my first post (as the senior poster I respect). I do agree with that more than anything else.

But that means more than anything we need to get out there. We're not talking about Wall Street, or Bay Street here, we're exercising democracy, and giving a voice to those that don't get to spend lots of money. All we're simply saying is, don't forget about us, and lets not go the way of these other failed systems. Keep an eye on the lobbies, keep an eye on the subsidies and loop holes for billion dollar companies, keep an eye on the corrupt politicians.

As a P.S., while I do agree the regulators are most at fault, some blame has to lie with the banks and corporations. There is a difference between running a responsible business and being an outright gambler or speculator. There are dozens of people on this very site who would lose their business if they behaved the way these big banks did. There are dozens of people here who run business who make money, while giving or adding to the community, and not stripping from it.

[Daradon]

Stealing from woob here, from the original occupy thread...


Entertaining interview by the Lang & O'Leary show. I'm not sure what Chris Hedges expected, going on the show to be interviewed by Kevin. If you know even an inkling about Kevin and how he acts, Chris should have known it was coming. That being said, I'm not sure he 'schooled' Kevin, but he did make some good points.


http://rabble.ca/rabbletv/program-gu...t-chris-hedges

Can't even say I agree with everything Chris says, there is definite rhetoric, but highlights some of the priniciples and just how backwards it has gotten in the States. And, in my mind, why we need to make sure it doesn't happen here.

Not just a bozo, but a Pulitzer prize winner.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Daradon

And while we have fared well in the economic downturn, we know things aren't fair here. The gap between the rich and the poor widens here too. There are corporations here that need to be taken to task for employee abuse, pollution, etc. Politicians get more under the table than they ever did. I grew up in the Mulroney years, and he was investigated by the RCMP. And he countered sued and won! Since then, Chretien and Harper have been accused of worse. The evil of the lobby exists here, and the unfair pull of the corporation exists here. Things are better here, but they are far from rosy.

The gap between the rich and the poor widens because of over regulation of the real economy. Regulation falls hardest on the weakest in society, who have the least means to avoid it. Thus, they are weakened even further, and the gap grows. I'll provide two general examples and one personal anecdote.

1) The tax code. It gets more and more complicated every year, and corporations and the rich require a huge staff of tax accountants/lawyers to minimize their bills. Those people are high income white collar types on the top of the gap. But the increased tax burden means marginal economic activity (the plant that was only making a bit of money before) gets shut down, and the front line workers have to find other work. They move down the income ladder, and the gap widens.

2) Regulations like dairy supply management raise prices of basic goods for everyone (compare our dairy prices to other places - we're higher), a burden which affects an underemployed single mom much more than a wealthy person. The benefits from this are concentrated into a few farmers, all of whom now have hundreds of thousands of dollars of government created assets (quota). A small politically connected group benefits at the expense of everyone, especially the poor. Seem fair to you?

3) Government monopolies and regulation make business less competitive. I ran a small mail order business, but Canada Post shipping wasn't even close to cost competitive with the prices my US competition could get. It cost less for them to mail my product from Florida to Calgary than it did for me to mail it from Calgary to Calgary. The enforced lack of postal competition cost me that business. I'm fine, I focused on my career instead, and am no worse off. The decent job for an unskilled person doing packing and shipping is gone now though. The regulation didn't hurt the higher income person, it hurt the low income person. And the benefits of the regulation flowed to a small politically connected group (postal workers) at the expense of everyone else, especially the poor.

[Sliver]

The protest sounds too vague to me. I don't think the targets of your protest (I don't even really get who they are) will know they're the targets, so what is the point of this?

[THE SCUD]

I will swing by on my lunch break to LOL.

I assume you picked Prince's Island because you can play some totally rad Frisbee while you protest something you're not sure of.

Can I join and protest protesting if this is an open protest?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

I will swing by on my lunch break to LOL.

I assume you picked Prince's Island because you can play some totally rad Frisbee while you protest something you're not sure of.

Can I join and protest protesting if this is an open protest?

Just get down there, any body will bring more news. People protesting the protesters will probably just add a lens to the arguments.

Oh, and check your address. Patrick's Island, not Prince's Island.

Assuming you actually read my post...

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The protest sounds too vague to me. I don't think the targets of your protest (I don't even really get who they are) will know they're the targets, so what is the point of this?

Yeah I second this. Seems like you're basically protesting for the sake of protesting?

[CaptainCrunch]

After going to the website and moving over to the statement of vision etc section, its just not the type of vision that resonates with me, I guess I am one of the 1%

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Icon

Yeah I second this. Seems like you're basically protesting for the sake of protesting?

I am participating in democracy for the sake of participating in democracy. Considering about 40% of Canadians don't even vote, I am not surprised nor swayed by the response.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

After going to the website and moving over to the statement of vision etc section, its just not the type of vision that resonates with me, I guess I am one of the 1%

No, we will just fight for you so you never have to.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I am participating in democracy for the sake of participating in democracy. Considering about 40% of Canadians don't even vote, I am not surprised nor swayed by the response.

I understand the "democracy" behind a protest/demonstration... but when you can't even outline the reason for your demonstration, why should you expect anyone to join you?