Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Perhaps it's been discussed before, but why is bus service so much more reliable in the morning than in the afternoon? Calgary Transit deals with the same traffic issues, the same ridership generally, the same weather, and the same staff, right? So why are they on the dot on time in the morning, but badly out of sync in the afternoon? To the point where in the afternoon, the schedule is useless, as you can wait 3 or 4 bus "arrival times" in the afternoon, while you never see a missed bus in the morning on the same route? Can anyone explain this?

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Probably because in the morning, the bus you're catching is pretty far away from the congestion, and didn't start anywhere near it, so it's easy to stay on time. In the afternoon however, the busses are all crammed into exactly where the traffic is the worst when you're trying to get on, so they are more likely to be delayed.

Plus it's probably safe to assume that for non 24hr service this is the norm. Any small disruption durring the day can add up if it doesn't get addressed, so scheduling becomes harder and less reliable as the day wears on and there are more minor probelms building up.

In addition to this, a couple more things:

- The morning rush starts at 6 AM, and the afternoon rush starts at 3 PM. There is often significantly more traffic, construction and collision delays at 3 PM than 6 AM.

- The afternoon rush in Calgary is historically more congested than the morning rush. This is due to variable start times for workplaces and schools, whereas end times are often not as spread out.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Does the City know (or have a suggestion) where those LRT stations are going to be on the 203 north line? Particularly, I'm wondering about those all along centre street and on the last two or three stops at the end of the line.

The alignment, let alone the station locations of the north central line between Beddington/Centre Street and downtown is currently being looked at again and is certainly not set in stone. For the longest time, the "official" future alignment was along the Nose Creek corridor west of Deerfoot Trail. Recent public consultation has shown a more central routing - Centre Street or Edmonton Trail - is preferred. Any more "official" central routing (a Centre Street alignment is shown in the map I posted earlier) would likely have stations roughly at the locations shown.

As for the Damn Near Red Deer far northern end of the line stations are fairly set. In this map, from either Aurora or Harvest Hills onward:



Source: http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/ct...twork_plan.pdf

[SebC]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Or when you are crammed in anywhere near the door and get smoked by it every time it opens. The sliding doors are a lot nicer.

That's not a problem with the trains, that's a problem with not having the 8th Ave subway and building the LRT to the city limits instead.

[Bill Bumface]

^vat???

[SebC]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

^vat???

Five car trains every three minutes = there's enough space to not get hit by the door.

[Super_Jason]

I haven't been paying too much attention about the future LRT but how are they planning to do the Centre Street LRT without literally ripping up the entire street?

[GirlySports]

They do sponsors in Portland!

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/node/35

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Super_Jason

I haven't been paying too much attention about the future LRT but how are they planning to do the Centre Street LRT without literally ripping up the entire street?

That's jumping the gun a bit. They basically went back to the drawing board on picking a route alignment south of Harvest Hills. Could be Centre Street, Edmonton Trail, Nose Creek, or maybe somewhere in between.

If Centre Street gets chosen, next is to pick the vertical alignment (elevated, at-grade, underground or some combination), station types and sizes, vehicle technology, etc.

It's all a little ways into the future. However, going underground can be possible while minimizing disruption using a tunnel boring machine:







There would still be a need for excavations at the station locations, as well as staging areas where the TBM gets put underground and comes out again.

In the case of an elevated alignment, construction impacts could be limited as well.

[Table 5]

That red boring machine is simply awesome.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Table 5

That red boring machine is simply awesome.

Really? I find it rather boring myself.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

That's jumping the gun a bit. They basically went back to the drawing board on picking a route alignment south of Harvest Hills. Could be Centre Street, Edmonton Trail, Nose Creek, or maybe somewhere in between.

If Centre Street gets chosen, next is to pick the vertical alignment (elevated, at-grade, underground or some combination), station types and sizes, vehicle technology, etc.

It's all a little ways into the future. However, going underground can be possible while minimizing disruption using a tunnel boring machine:

[snip]

Spoiler!

[/snip]

There would still be a need for excavations at the station locations, as well as staging areas where the TBM gets put underground and comes out again.

In the case of an elevated alignment, construction impacts could be limited as well.

Yeah, they could bore in, but cut and cover is cheaper, so I'm guessing that's what they'd do. That is, if we're lucky enough to get the Centre Street alignment.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yeah, they could bore in, but cut and cover is cheaper, so I'm guessing that's what they'd do. That is, if we're lucky enough to get the Centre Street alignment.

Hard to say. Some boring would almost be necessary from downtown up until at least 16th Avenue. The cuts would be huge if not impossible up to that point. Going under the river would obviously necessitate boring.

Honestly, I think the possibility of going with an elevated alignment may enter more and more into the picture as the project approaches.

[Bunk]

I would say centre street is the most likely alignment based on what I observed at the various open houses.

I think the most likely outcome in terms of its grade is an at grade urban lrt. A dedicated ROW like these examples below:

It's obvious trade off is operational speed vs. cost. This would be by far the least costliest and would turn centre street into a transit-focused street. But it does present the opportunity to really use the LRT as a catalyst for intensification along the corridor. I could however see the first station in Crescent Heights be underground, because if it's an extention on the SELRT it would exit downtown underground, under the river and then up the hill toward Centre.

[SebC]

I thought we determined from the NE line that at-grade sucks?

[Bunk]

The NE line is designed in a very anti-urban configuration - it's not integrated at all into the fabric of the street like more contemporary examples of LRT. It can be done much more successfully.

[mykalberta]

I had always thought Centre Street alignment to be what was just posted, at grade more Euro style. But it would turn Centre street into more transit focused and people who use it as a way to get downtown would have to use transit or find another route.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Going under the river would obviously necessitate boring.

It would be possible to cut and cover under the river, half at a time. But that would be expensive too. If boring is required to get up the hill, then the river section would be bored too.

[Table 5]

Sorry if this has already been discussed (just don't feel like wading through 40 pages), but has the NE alignment along site Deerfoot now been dropped for a route up Centre Street? Or is this a whole other line that's still only living as a what-if? I always thought that Deerfoot route was rather ######ed considering nobody lives along it....Centre Street (or at least Edmonton Trail) makes way too much sense to ignore.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Sorry if this has already been discussed (just don't feel like wading through 40 pages), but has the NE alignment along site Deerfoot now been dropped for a route up Centre Street? Or is this a whole other line that's still only living as a what-if? I always thought that Deerfoot route was rather ######ed considering nobody lives along it....Centre Street (or at least Edmonton Trail) makes way too much sense to ignore.

There were open houses earlier this year when city administration showed alternatives to the Nose Creek routing. It sounds like the Nose Creek routing has fallen out of favour with administration, and especially after the majority of the community people were in support of a centre street or edmonton trail alignment.

Personally, I see the Nose Creek alignment as having a large issue, that it would require another completely separate downtown ROW. The money saved by connecting to the (then) existing SELRT LOW up 2nd St SE would help offset the additional cost of constructing the line up centre street.

[ken0042]

Question about boring vs. cut and cover.

With cut and cover, don't we have to worry more about utilities? Whereas with boring we could just go under all of them?