Your belief about September, 11th, 2001

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

No I cannot. That is what a new investigation is for.

The Pentagon is just one aspect of the whole event.

I would like to know how Hani Hanjour pulled off a near impossible maneuver with a 757 after flunking out of flight school in Florida. The guy couldn't fly a Cessna....

But you don't agree with the investigation - what is your opinion on the matter?
Oh so you agree that a known Al Qaeda operative was flying AA77? Was he working for the US goverment?

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I don't know, it's not like the Pentagon is in the middle of a city. I've driven by it several times and it's more or less a big building surrounded by parking lots and freeways which is bordered by a cemetery on one side and a river on the other. I'm nor surprised in the slightest that there weren't random cameras at other businesses that picked up the crash and I imagine at the Pentagon itself they rely more on people to guard the perimeter rather than cameras.

How many plane crashes are actually caught on video? Even when they happen at airports which have cameras everywhere they're not necessarily caught on tape.

Hahahaha...sorry, but really?

One of the most important buildings in the USA doesnt have multiple camera's filming it at all times?

Sure.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not only that but camera technology wasn't what it is now in 2001. They didn't have cheap and high quality digital cameras like they do now. The ability to cover extremely large areas by camera using non-digital cameras is really limited.

You do realize who we are taking about here?

Its not your local 7-11.

[Travis Munroe]

this has to of been mentioned but why don't we have a poll in this thread?

[zamler]

You know what is really annoying? The smugness from some of you who dismiss anything but what you believe, and look down from your ivory tower with your holier than thou, I am right you're an idiot attitude.

Try and show some class and maturity, or is your very existence really that threatened by alternative beliefs?

[robocop]

Originally Posted by zamler

Try and show some class and maturity, or is your very existence really that threatened by alternative beliefs?

I don't think it's that complex, seems to me more like just lower intelligence levels. Being able to form an opinion and regurgitate someone elses words that supports that opinion is easy, paying attention and actually considering the merits of another persons opinions requires a level of intelligence a lot of people don't have.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

this has to of been mentioned but why don't we have a poll in this thread?

Poll:

1) Are you stupid enough to believe ideas completely devoid of logic and the only way you can hold onto those beliefs is by throwing common sense right out the window to trust in some stupid crap that another youtube uploader is spewing?

2) Are you not legally ######ed?

Simple enough poll I'd think.

[Ozy_Flame]

Occam's razor - not always the right answer.

Ask more questions, do more research.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Hahahaha...sorry, but really?

One of the most important buildings in the USA doesnt have multiple camera's filming it at all times?

Sure.

Of course there are multiple cameras but are they of a high enough quality and frame rate and recording a sufficiently wide angle image to capture a plane traveling at those speeds hitting that spot? Most security cameras in those days were recorded to tape and tended to shoot only a few frames per second. Also, pretty much any camera was likely pointed downwards to monitor slower activity at ground level, so it's not going to pick up a plane 100 feet away hitting the building.

Maybe the government is sitting on a clear piece of footage that shows a plane hitting the Pentagon and refuses to release it, who knows. So I guess it comes down to what you think happened. If you think Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, then what exists will suffice. If you think something else hit it then obviously you'll think they're covering something up.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If you don't think it was a missile, if you believe it was flight 77 then logically you should also believe there isn't any other footage.

I`m not sure I understand the correlation here. Why does me believing Flight 77 hit the Pentagon suggest I should believe there was no additional footage?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Muta

I`m not sure I understand the correlation here. Why does me believing Flight 77 hit the Pentagon suggest I should believe there was no additional footage?

Ok, so I have been following the past couple pages and you keep repeating this point.

If you don't have a problem believing that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, then why does the possible existence of any additional footage that hasn't been released a cause for you to be concerned? What would it show that would be of value to you?

Is it simply the fact that they have not released every single piece of information that they have? If that's the case, then I would suggest that releasing the video might compromise the security of the pentagon, if for no reason other than it would allow camera locations to be pinpointed and dead spots of video surveillance coverage to be determined.

If there is nothing to be gained by releasing it, but something possibly to be lost by releasing it, then what is the point?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Is it simply the fact that they have not released every single piece of information that they have? If that's the case, then I would suggest that releasing the video might compromise the security of the pentagon, if for no reason other than it would allow camera locations to be pinpointed and dead spots of video surveillance coverage to be determined.

The footage at the gas station and the hotel? That's going to compromise national security? Both of these are public areas. You could probably stand where the gas station camera is and see the same thing. How is that compromising national security? I think your argument is reaching too much . . .

The only reasons they wouldn't release the video is if it compromised national security - that is, if there's something on there that is important or of value.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If there is nothing to be gained by releasing it, but something possibly to be lost by releasing it, then what is the point?

If someone requests to see it under the FOIA, and the security cameras show nothing important, then what is to be gained by denying access?

[CrusaderPi]

I can't wait until this thread is bumped again next year. Maybe we'll have all the answers by then.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Ok, so I have been following the past couple pages and you keep repeating this point.

If you don't have a problem believing that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, then why does the possible existence of any additional footage that hasn't been released a cause for you to be concerned? What would it show that would be of value to you?

Is it simply the fact that they have not released every single piece of information that they have? If that's the case, then I would suggest that releasing the video might compromise the security of the pentagon, if for no reason other than it would allow camera locations to be pinpointed and dead spots of video surveillance coverage to be determined.

If there is nothing to be gained by releasing it, but something possibly to be lost by releasing it, then what is the point?

Having additional footage doesn`t benefit me; I believe Flight 77 hit that Pentagon. Releasing additional footage would sure make alot of other people more at ease, however... you know, the ones sitting on the fence about this incident. If anything, it would shut all the Truthers up and end this debate once and for all.

If there`s additional footage, and it is a matter of security to release that footage, then fine. Someone should come out and say that then. Atleast people would know footage exists, but they can`t show it for security reasons. Its all the government can do at that point.

If footage exists and it doesn`t compromise national security, however, I don`t see why it shouldn`t be released. I think people should have a right to know.

National Geographic showed government video of the commandos storming Bin Laden`s compound right before they killed him in May. That`s a matter of national security; why were those released to the public?

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Of course there are multiple cameras but are they of a high enough quality and frame rate and recording a sufficiently wide angle image to capture a plane traveling at those speeds hitting that spot? Most security cameras in those days were recorded to tape and tended to shoot only a few frames per second. Also, pretty much any camera was likely pointed downwards to monitor slower activity at ground level, so it's not going to pick up a plane 100 feet away hitting the building.

Maybe the government is sitting on a clear piece of footage that shows a plane hitting the Pentagon and refuses to release it, who knows. So I guess it comes down to what you think happened. If you think Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, then what exists will suffice. If you think something else hit it then obviously you'll think they're covering something up.

I dont have an opinion on what happened to the Pentagon.

Id be very suprised if there was not clearer footage out there of what happened though.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The footage at the gas station and the hotel? That's going to compromise national security? Both of these are public areas. You could probably stand where the gas station camera is and see the same thing. How is that compromising national security? I think your argument is reaching too much . . .

Didn't they release those already?

Citgo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJvF...feature=relmfu


Doubletree Hotel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bapUo...feature=relmfu

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Didn't they release those already?

Citgo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJvF...feature=relmfu


Doubletree Hotel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bapUo...feature=relmfu

Thanks for posting these.

I wasnt able to see much in either video.
(Also, which the comments were disabled in both videos haha)

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Muta

In New York, there seemed to be enough cameras taping the event everywhere.

I don't believe I've ever seen any footage of the first plane hitting. Sure, once the first tower was hit, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of cameras pointing at the WTC to capture the second impact, but that's because everyone was looking at the smoke pouring out of the first tower.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Muta

I`m not sure I understand the correlation here. Why does me believing Flight 77 hit the Pentagon suggest I should believe there was no additional footage?

Because if you believe it was Flight 77 there is absoloutly no reason for the goverment to hide any footage, in fact it is in their interest to release it, therefore the fact they havn't means, logically, there isn't anything else.

Basic common sense would tell you that if it was 77 that hit the building whatever the goverment had in videos they would release, if regardless of that you still think they are hiding something then it is your own anti goverment paranoia speaking, not common sense.

In fact I would go so far as to say if the goverment was hiding something they would have spared no expense to provide you with a really good film of the plane crashing to shut you up, the lack of film, if anything, tends to prove it was a hijacked plane.

Lack of video evidense is only relevant to the missile arguement, in fact it would have appeared to have spawned the missile arguement, but personally I cannot see an iota of common sense in the idea the Pentagon was hit by a missile on so many levels, not least of which is that the missile or plane actually impacted the ground slightly in front of the building and effectively skipped into it, something laser guided missiles dont do, but an amauter flown plane would likely do.