2011 NFL thread

[Sylvanfan]

On that last play Picket got below the whole right side of that line and pushed them back a yard like a tree skidder. Thats some serious power to push about 900 pounds of lineman back like that. Doesn't get any credit stats wise for that play, but so is life for a lot of defensive ends in a 3-4 defence.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I remember when CFL hard core fans always used to bring up how the NFL was boring run the ball 3 times and punt it away. Not with these two teams!

CFL 'excitement' is epitomized by blown coverages leading to long TD passes, embarassing turnovers, dropped balls in the endzone, and quirky rules that are more designed to generate randomness rather than skill (Ie batting a ball out of bounds to gain possession as opposed to actually having to recover the football.' If you live and breathe for a team it can be an emotional roller coaster that creates excitement. If you care little as to the actual outcome you will be disappointed by how poor the football really is.

[darklord700]

Do they play defense in NFL anymore? The game feels like a practice session in Madden to me. It's fun to watch though.

[troutman]

Lots of brand new Packer jerseys and hats at FATS last night. Just a little Bandwagony.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

CFL 'excitement' is epitomized by blown coverages leading to long TD passes, embarassing turnovers, dropped balls in the endzone, and quirky rules that are more designed to generate randomness rather than skill (Ie batting a ball out of bounds to gain possession as opposed to actually having to recover the football.' If you live and breathe for a team it can be an emotional roller coaster that creates excitement. If you care little as to the actual outcome you will be disappointed by how poor the football really is.

If the NFL was three downs you would also see plenty of blown coverages, turnovers, dropped balls etc. In three down football the ball is put in risk more often. More plays, more passes, more special teams. The rules make it more chaotic, not the athletes.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

If the NFL was three downs you would also see plenty of blown coverages, turnovers, dropped balls etc. In three down football the ball is put in risk more often. More plays, more passes, more special teams. The rules make it more chaotic, not the athletes.

Not with the larger field, LOS scrimmage rules, unlimited motion, etc. Most passing plays in the CFL are incredibly high success percentage plays.

EDIT: Re-reading that, I think we're arguing the same point.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

If the NFL was three downs you would also see plenty of blown coverages, turnovers, dropped balls etc. In three down football the ball is put in risk more often. More plays, more passes, more special teams. The rules make it more chaotic, not the athletes.

Sorry, that's simply not true. Coverages aren't blown because 'the ball is put in risk more often', they're blown because the talent level isn't anywhere near on par, including the coaching.

[rubecube]

Looks like prison didn't really teach Plaxico anything other than to blame everyone else.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...-prison-lesson

Kind of a stark contrast to Vick, who came out of prison contrite, apologetic, and accountable for his actions.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Looks like prison didn't really teach Plaxico anything other than to blame everyone else.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...-prison-lesson

Kind of a stark contrast to Vick, who came out of prison contrite, apologetic, and accountable for his actions.

Idiot...this sums it up...

"I was always his biggest supporter, even days he wasn't on, 'cause I could sense he didn't have thick skin," Burress said. "Then I went away, and I thought he would come see me, but nothing, not a letter, in two years. I don't want to say it was a slap in the face, but I thought our relationship was better than that."

[valo403]

What a loser, I'm embarrassed that he's a former Spartan.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by valo403

It wouldn't matter who you had in the backfield, that O-Line was pathetic in short yardage. The line of scrimmage was pushed back a good yard into the backfield. No back is overcoming that. They couldn't even hold off the surge long enough to allow a play action fake, let alone the pass.

Yeah, it's pretty baffling that they can have two of the best young linemen in the game (Nicks/Evans), but when it comes down to it, they can't get the important yards.

There's obviously room for improvement from last night, but I can't say I'm too disappointed. I have a feeling these two teams will see each other again, hopefully in the Superdome.

Edit: Wow, that Burress column is bad. What an idiot.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by valo403

Sorry, that's simply not true. Coverages aren't blown because 'the ball is put in risk more often', they're blown because the talent level isn't anywhere near on par, including the coaching.

I disagree, the coaches and the talent level of import Americans in the CFL are typically top notch and just below NFL level. The two big things hindering the quality of play in the CFL in my mind are:

1) Canadian Ratios - basically creates situations where there are weak spots on the field for teams with better Canadians to exploit as the Canadian talent pool isn't as deep as the non-NFL American talent pool. Teams have to change their offensive and defensive schemes to allow for inferior players sometimes. So this impacts both the talent and the coaching part of the game

2) The simple fact that playing CFL football is typically a job that pays less than most jobs requiring a university education and is much less secure. This means that you lose players for economic reasons (Jeff Pilon as an example left the Stamps to be a supervisor up on the rigs up north), some eligible college players don't even bother going to the CFL because they are getting on with their lives in other professional careers.

Even the players that play require offseason employment and/or additional part-time employment during the season. The players association has a 4.5 hour work day stipulation in their CBA to allow players to pursue these other interests. This severely hampers how much coaching and how complicated defensive and offensive systems are. This leads to more turnovers, and sloppy play because they just don't have the time to be as polished and ready on game-day as NFL teams.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by valo403

Sorry, that's simply not true. Coverages aren't blown because 'the ball is put in risk more often', they're blown because the talent level isn't anywhere near on par, including the coaching.

That's your opinion. More pass plays, means more chances for blown coverages. NFL players are not perfect super-humans compared to CFL players. Most CFL defensive backs played at big NCAA schools. To suggest that they are nowhere near the talent level of NFL players is a huge exaggeration. Brandon Browner is now playing for Seattle for example. The larger field must surely make it harder to cover too.

If it is a talent issue, wouldn't the incredibly talented NFL receivers break down coverages?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

That's your opinion. More pass plays, means more chances for blown coverages. NFL players are not perfect super-humans compared to CFL players. Most CFL defensive backs played at big NCAA schools. To suggest that they are nowhere near the talent level of NFL players is a huge exaggeration. Brandon Browner is now playing for Seattle for example. The larger field must surely make it harder to cover too.

If it is a talent issue, wouldn't the incredibly talented NFL receivers break down coverages?

This is such a logically flawed argument, yet I see it from CFL fans all the time. So Brandon Browner got the 3rd or 4th CB spot on a team with one of the weakest secondaries in the league and it's indicative of the CFL talent being on par with the NFL? Of the dozens of CFL players that get tryouts with NFL teams every year, how many of them actually become impact players in the NFL? In the last 10 years I can really only think of Cameron Wake. I guess you could argue Stefan Logan but I wouldn't really call him an impact player.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

That's your opinion. More pass plays, means more chances for blown coverages. NFL players are not perfect super-humans compared to CFL players. Most CFL defensive backs played at big NCAA schools. To suggest that they are nowhere near the talent level of NFL players is a huge exaggeration. Brandon Browner is now playing for Seattle for example. The larger field must surely make it harder to cover too.

If it is a talent issue, wouldn't the incredibly talented NFL receivers break down coverages?

It's not a simple more opportunities means more blown coverages situation, blown coverages in the CFL are almost expected compared to the frequency in the NFL. Where guys played in college has no bearing on this discussion, we aren't talking about who was a 5 star recruit 4 years ago. The browner example all but proves my point, he was one of if not the best CB's in the CFL and he's now a low level CB by NFL standards. The vast majority of CFL players, even the All-Stars, aren't even at that level.

I don't get your last point, highly talented receivers do break down coverage and create space in the NFL when matched up against guys below their level or schemes that afford them the opportunity. If T.O. in his prime was matched up against a lower tier CB he'd jack him at the line and go where he pleased. Look at the game last night, an elite receiver like Jennings sat down in holes in coverage. That's not a blown coverage, that's a top level receiver seeing the seam and getting open. I didn't see the whole game last night, but I don't recall seeing a completely blown coverage. Guys got open, and guys beat their man, but I didn't see someone open because the safety wasn't dropping into the deep third zone or the like. I've only caught a handful of CFL games over the last couple of years, but I've seen those types of blown coverages routinely when I've seen games, and judging by the comments on here after games it wasn't limited to those few games. CFL players aren't garbage, but they are largely a big step below in terms of talent and a big step below in terms of coaching.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I disagree, the coaches and the talent level of import Americans in the CFL are typically top notch and just below NFL level. The two big things hindering the quality of play in the CFL in my mind are:

1) Canadian Ratios - basically creates situations where there are weak spots on the field for teams with better Canadians to exploit as the Canadian talent pool isn't as deep as the non-NFL American talent pool. Teams have to change their offensive and defensive schemes to allow for inferior players sometimes. So this impacts both the talent and the coaching part of the game

2) The simple fact that playing CFL football is typically a job that pays less than most jobs requiring a university education and is much less secure. This means that you lose players for economic reasons (Jeff Pilon as an example left the Stamps to be a supervisor up on the rigs up north), some eligible college players don't even bother going to the CFL because they are getting on with their lives in other professional careers.

Even the players that play require offseason employment and/or additional part-time employment during the season. The players association has a 4.5 hour work day stipulation in their CBA to allow players to pursue these other interests. This severely hampers how much coaching and how complicated defensive and offensive systems are. This leads to more turnovers, and sloppy play because they just don't have the time to be as polished and ready on game-day as NFL teams.

I think there are a handful of guys that are top notch imports, the rest are good players but they aren't good enough to even be camp fodder in the NFL. They are guys that simply don't have other options besides playing football, or guys that love the game too much to give it up.

[OILFAN #81]

Saints reciever Marquis Colston broke his collarbone and is out at least a month.

[Drake]

Surprised the Adrian Peterson signing hasn't been brought up here yet. Seven year deal worth $100 million, $36 million guaranteed. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ion-guaranteed

[CofR]

Today feels like Christmas morning, so much hope, so much excitement.

Raise the red flag. Fire the cannons. Go Bucs!

[OILFAN #81]

LOL. 17-0 Texans after 2 Kerry Collins fumbles. The defense has played good yet Collins has handed the Texans 2 TD's inside the 20.

David Garrard needs to be signed but it won't matter anyways. This is why Peyton should be given the MVP every year. He is the most valuable to his team out of any player in the NFL IMO.