It is a freakin' 40 dollar cake that likely cost the baker what 10 bucks to make?
He also pays any salaries and rent and utilities with the other 30 bucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
The OP said cakes normally take 30 mins and the guy quoted him 3-4 times that time to get the cake made and didn't contact him until 4 hours later. That sounds like pretty slow help to me.
My dry cleaners don't phone me up when my dry cleaning is done, they told me when it would be done. When I order pizza for pickup, they tell me when it will be ready, they don't phone me up. They told the original poster when it would be ready, then probably waited for him until a whack of time passed then said wtf, is he picking this thing up or is he going to screw us ove?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Seems to me like a pretty normal thing to happen to any business and the OP was pretty good in at least calling to cancel the order rather than just ignore it like many people do. But typical CP fashion an huge moral overreaction needs to occur so people can tell us all what great people they are.
I'd be fine if it was an off the shelf order, it wasn't it was a custom order. then when they phone, he tells them that he'll come by and pick it up and doesn't.
The op is out nothing, the shop owner is out 40 bucks plus time. Who got screwed over here, it wasn't the op.
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Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 09-08-2011 at 10:09 PM.
Seems to me like a pretty normal thing to happen to any business and the OP was pretty good in at least calling to cancel the order rather than just ignore it like many people do. But typical CP fashion an huge moral overreaction needs to occur so people can tell us all what great people they are.
Are you serious? He had no idea if the baker was already working on the cake, if he even got the message. If you make a deal, ANY deal, and you want to change it, it has to be approved by both parties. Leaving a message is a one way action that has two problems with it. 1. No knowledge if the message is received, and 2. no knowledge if the change in the deal is agreed upon.
You may think that opinion is morally overreacting, but I'd say that's common sense and common courtesy. If you make a deal, you don't change it without the other parties consent.
... after reading this thread, I have the urge to custom order a cake in the shape of my junk. Thanks CP.
Low hanging fruit, sorry ...just to be clear after the Moon/Valo misunderstanding, the winking smiley face means that this is in jest. I have no reason to believe that your junk is either tiny, wedge-shaped, or cakey.
My dry cleaners don't phone me up when my dry cleaning is done, they told me when it would be done. When I order pizza for pickup, they tell me when it will be ready, they don't phone me up. They told the original poster when it would be ready, then probably waited for him until a whack of time passed then said wtf, is he picking this thing up or is he going to screw us ove?
But they knew he wasn't picking it up because he called them to tell them he was cancelling the order.
If they don't understand how to use voicemail or decide they will ignore the voicemails their customers leave then they shouldn't have it as an option for customers to use.
I agree with you if he hadn't called back and said screw it and just didn't show up but he seemed to have called back in a reasonable time based on the timeline they gave him for when the cake would be ready.
Quote:
I'd be fine if it was an off the shelf order, it wasn't it was a custom order. then when they phone, he tells them that he'll come by and pick it up and doesn't.
The op is out nothing, the shop owner is out 40 bucks plus time. Who got screwed over here, it wasn't the op.
Somehow I deleted the overhead costs comment you had but will address it here. I would agree if it were a big order like another poster mentioned such as a Wedding cake that could be over 100 dollars and would take a long time to make but this seems like a fairly routine order and not something that should really come into play that much in terms of electricty, salary etc.
I certainly don't think the OP got screwed but based on the small order, fact that the OP called back relatively quickly and in what would seem like a time that likely occurred prior to the cake being started (based on the baker likely finishing the large order first) it seems to me like something that happens to businesses all the time.
Sucks for the baker a bit yes, but not something horrible done by the OP that should have people questioning his character and certainly not something that warrants 80 calls.
Personally I think I would have gone in and got the cake if I were in the situation but don't think the OP is such a terrible guy for not doing as he made a good faith effort to cancel said order and probably thought that the order was cancelled.
Are you serious? He had no idea if the baker was already working on the cake, if he even got the message. If you make a deal, ANY deal, and you want to change it, it has to be approved by both parties. Leaving a message is a one way action that has two problems with it. 1. No knowledge if the message is received, and 2. no knowledge if the change in the deal is agreed upon.
You may think that opinion is morally overreacting, but I'd say that's common sense and common courtesy. If you make a deal, you don't change it without the other parties consent.
Yes I am serious.
It was a $40 cake, not some multi-million dollar project that he backed out of after weeks or months of work.
Businesses (and people) have voice-mails for a reason and it isn't crazy to expect a business to check that during operating hours.
I guess he had no idea but if he was told that the baker had a big order to fill and that would mean the cake that normally takes 30 mins to make would now take 1.5-2 hours it is pretty reasonable to expect that the reason is the big order has to be made first.
I am not a master baker but I doubt that the cake would take longer to bake because of a large order being made at the same time.
Even if the voicemail was checked, it doesn't mean it's ok to cancel the order. That's still up to the baker to decide. Maybe they have a no cancellation policy. Maybe (though unlikely) he did already start working on the cake.
At the end of the day it's a pretty small thing, I did say I wouldn't go so far as to say the OP is a loser like some did, and like I said in my first post, calling 80 times is pretty silly. But it's kinda shady to back out of a deal/contract unilaterally. Especially in a custom order situation. You need verification that the cancellation is ok.
Even if the voicemail was checked, it doesn't mean it's ok to cancel the order. That's still up to the baker to decide. Maybe they have a no cancellation policy. Maybe (though unlikely) he did already start working on the cake.
At the end of the day it's a pretty small thing, I did say I wouldn't go so far as to say the OP is a loser like some did, and like I said in my first post, calling 80 times is pretty silly. But it's kinda shady to back out of a deal/contract unilaterally. Especially in a custom order situation. You need verification that the cancellation is ok.
I think we are probably pretty close in our thinking.
My issue wasn't so much to defend what the poster did, as I think I would have went and got the cake, but more so with the loser and questioning his character comments.
I just didn't think it was that big of an deal to have those comments come out.
The name of this place sounds Japanese, and Japanese people are the only people I will ever do business on with a handshake. I have never had them back out of any sort of deal when they have given me their word. In fact, in my industry, where ever I have worked, it is common practice to do business with Japanese people and not request a deposit, as they find it insulting, and distrustful.
So it looks like you they extended you that courtesy, and you threw it back in their face.
Yeah, well some of us still remember Pearl Harbour, okay?
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It was a $40 cake, not some multi-million dollar project that he backed out of after weeks or months of work.
Businesses (and people) have voice-mails for a reason and it isn't crazy to expect a business to check that during operating hours.
I guess he had no idea but if he was told that the baker had a big order to fill and that would mean the cake that normally takes 30 mins to make would now take 1.5-2 hours it is pretty reasonable to expect that the reason is the big order has to be made first.
I am not a master baker but I doubt that the cake would take longer to bake because of a large order being made at the same time.
Just so you know moon, a voice mail or email, does not legally prove cancellation of a contract as it cannot be proven the voice mail/email has been read/heard by the receiving party.
The OP admitted, he had a verbal contract for the cake.
He has no proof the voice mail was received or listened to by the baker he contracted the cake to.
Quite a few years ago I had a similar scenario where I gave the go ahead to have a navigation system installed in a car on a Friday. I sent the car out immediately to get it put in since he was picking up Monday. The customer left a voice mail on Sunday that he wanted to cancel the deal. By the time I received it on Monday, the nav system had already been installed. Legally we were allowed to keep the deposit as reimbursement for the nav system which at the time was a couple grand.
This actually went to arbitration, and the customer lost, in fact it was ruled he had to pay the difference still outstanding. as "A voice mail, in no way cancels a contract." According to the arbitrator. "As there is no way to guarantee when when or if it is received."
Insurance companies also explicity have this point in all of the voicemail greeting messages. "Coverage cannot be changed by leaving a voicemail, you must speak with an agent." Or something along those lines.
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I think we are probably pretty close in our thinking.
My issue wasn't so much to defend what the poster did, as I think I would have went and got the cake, but more so with the loser and questioning his character comments.
I just didn't think it was that big of an deal to have those comments come out.
Just so you know moon, a voice mail or email, does not legally prove cancellation of a contract as it cannot be proven the voice mail/email has been read/heard by the receiving party.
The OP admitted, he had a verbal contract for the cake.
He has no proof the voice mail was received or listened to by the baker he contracted the cake to.
Quite a few years ago I had a similar scenario where I gave the go ahead to have a navigation system installed in a car on a Friday. I sent the car out immediately to get it put in since he was picking up Monday. The customer left a voice mail on Sunday that he wanted to cancel the deal. By the time I received it on Monday, the nav system had already been installed. Legally we were allowed to keep the deposit as reimbursement for the nav system which at the time was a couple grand.
This actually went to arbitration, and the customer lost, in fact it was ruled he had to pay the difference still outstanding. as "A voice mail, in no way cancels a contract." According to the arbitrator. "As there is no way to guarantee when when or if it is received."
Insurance companies also explicity have this point in all of the voicemail greeting messages. "Coverage cannot be changed by leaving a voicemail, you must speak with an agent." Or something along those lines.
I think those are a lot bigger agreements in terms of cash and work done. It was a $40 cake and the call made was within a fairly reasonable time and during work hours (i.e not Sunday for a car dealership.)
Edit: Also agree that in the nav system case what you did and the ruling seems to be the right call.
The OP, in my opinion, should go and talk to the baker and come to a resolution: that being, a tasty cake at the agreed upon price. He should discuss with the baker how the excessive phone calls are unacceptable in our culture, and how they made him not want to buy the cake, and that in the future, this is a bad business plan.
I might be missing the mark but this statement about when the OP speaks to the shop owner the next day holds a lot of merit to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly06Cup
I might come by later to pick up the cake. I abruptly hang up on them.
So they call the OP back, he brushes them off, lies to them and then hangs up the phone on them?
I don't mind dumb, but I do mind rude. OP had an opportunity to make things on the level but chose to hang the shop owner out to dry. Not only did you ding the guys car with your door, you sped off while telling him to #### himself when he called you on it.
There are far better ways to conduct yourself, $40 item or not.
Last edited by Bean; 09-08-2011 at 11:20 PM.
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There are a few things I find unbelievable in this thread...
First, why would anyone think that calling half an hour after ordering food is a reasonable time to cancel food? Baking a cake takes time, folks. I have never baked a cake myself, but I am still aware of the fact that before even putting it in the oven, ingredients need to be mixed together, and then it has to sit in the oven. Come on, Philly. Half an hour into a two hour period likely means that preparation or baking is already underway.
Second, the fact that people are suggesting that the bakery should suck it up ans scrape the name off the cake and resell it. With all the GD beer snobs and anti TimHortonism around this forum, the notion that a fancy independent bakery reuse a cake should have been torn to shreds, but it wasn't. Strange. I guess cakes don't need to be special, but a pint of beer or a morning coffee needs to be prepared by some kind of artist with a 300 year old recipe.
Last, I'm pretty surprised that so many people think that a voicemail is a reasonable way to cancel a purchase, especiall when it's a time pressure situation like this. LEaving a voicemail is prudent if you're calling to cancel something, but just because you left that voicemail doesn't mean they got it, so you should probably try more than just twice to get ahold of someone that's using their time, money, and skill to make you a custom anything, if you're canceling an order. You just have to actually talk to the person. You have to.
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The OP, in my opinion...should go and He should discuss with the baker how the excessive phone calls are unacceptable in our culture,
Not sure if serious considering the actions of the OP the following day. Keeping in mind the numerous posts detailing road rage antics, stolen extension cord revenge and other epic threads within the Off Topic Forum, over reaction is part of general existence let alone the anonymity of the Internet. yikes, just noticed the thread about winning a wife as a prize...
Maybe the OP can leave the baker another voicemail about acceptable actions "in our culture".
....and then break up with his girlfriend via twitter or Facebook.
...just to be clear after the Moon/Valo misunderstanding, the winking smiley face means that this is in jest. I have no reason to believe that your junk is either tiny, wedge-shaped, or cakey.
