All of the major cities where the rioting occurred are now taking out billboard advertisements, video screens and mobile adverts on the back of trucks with pictures taken from CCTV of those that were involved. The slogan being used:
Shop a Looter
I don't know who thought it up but it is working in some instances, parents turning their own kids into the cops.
You realize that the systems are incredibly similar right? The process in the UK isn't all that different, people are being arrested, processed and then released if they meet their bail conditions.
You realize that the systems are incredibly similar right? The process in the UK isn't all that different, people are being arrested, processed and then released if they meet their bail conditions.
I understand that they are similar, I meant in practice ours is very poor
London courts are in to their 2nd day of hearings, and people are not being released on bail
I don't think anyone related to the Vancouver riots has been held longer than a few hours
"What has been fuelling all this is not poverty, as has so predictably been claimed, but moral collapse. What we have been experiencing is a complete breakdown of civilised behaviour among children and young people straight out of William Golding’s seminal novel about childhood savagery, Lord Of The Flies."
The article gets into the breakdown of the family, feminism, education, multi-culturalism, welfare/entitlement culture etc.
While I do think a lot of what is said on that article is true, I think it's a gross oversimplification to lay this all on misguided liberals.
It's easy to pin the blame solely on those who tried and failed.
One should remember that many agreed that changes in the school system and the society in general needed to be done. The liberals offered their solutions, with admittedly many results that weren't what they were supposed to be. Still, to say that this would never had happened if it wasn't for the bloody liberals is just misguided political rhetorics. It's been 16 years since the last similar riot, which is quite normal for London.
The fact that it's bigger than normal is notable, and does tell something about failed policies, but those are not solely liberal policies that have failed.
(I'm not counting the 99-01 riots, as those were somewhat more political and I think had more to do with the times than the city itself.)
For some historical perspective, the shunning of values like the nuclear family, respect for authority and education date pretty far back in the British underclasses, especially in London. Certainly further than the existence of the labour party and before social liberalism was any kind of a factor.
Very similar descriptions of the low moral standards of the London "commoners" and "underclass" that we read today can easily be found dating back to at least the late 19th century. The images of the absent/transient, drinking and violent fathers and the self-absorded, drinking mothers neglecting a full litter of children with different fathers have been semi-iconic even then. The (propable urban legend) of the mother auctioning her daughter in a London bar to get money to drink is very old.
Also, ever since the industrial revolution, when the "police" (a term which needs to be used liberally if compared to todays standards) and the army were regurarly used to violently put down worker unrest in mines and factories, a tradition of distrust towards the authorities and the upper classes has existed among the British working classes. (And for a long time with good reason, one might argue.) One of the side-effects of this has been the shunning away from education, since that could lead to rising up in the class system, and who wants their child to grow up to be the enemy?
Also, statistically speaking, the chances of being caught is a much better stick against crime than tough punishments. So all those cuts to police funding which is all the rage these days regardless of who's in power, those play a big part in all of this.
I understand that they are similar, I meant in practice ours is very poor
London courts are in to their 2nd day of hearings, and people are not being released on bail
I don't think anyone related to the Vancouver riots has been held longer than a few hours
It makes our system worse that they are processing more people and therefore will obviously take longer to do so? And people are being released on bail, you think they just reopened the tower of London and started chucking people in?
It makes our system worse that they are processing more people and therefore will obviously take longer to do so? And people are being released on bail, you think they just reopened the tower of London and started chucking people in?
no one from the Vancouver riots is likely to see Jail time
In England they very likely will
I think that makes the English version a lot better than the Canadian one
no one from the Vancouver riots is likely to see Jail time
In England they very likely will
I think that makes the English version a lot better than the Canadian one
Will be people who engaged in similar behaviors see similar sentences? Probably. These riots have seen acts that were way above those seen in Vancouver, I would expect that you would see more people serving jail time when there have been murder charges laid than you would see out of the actions of rioters in Vancouver.
Just in case anyone needs to put this in perspective.
London riots started about a week ago. Police have already arrested 1700 people.
Vancouver riot happened 2 months ago. Zero arrests.
I made a comparison similar to this a long time ago, its hard to remember the specifics but there was a laser pointer incident at a soccer game and they had the guy apprehended in 5 or 10 minutes whereas the building staff in Vancouver after the laser pointer incident said they couldnt find the guy.
All this despite the fact that the crowd in the soccer stadium was almost triple then GM place's capacity.
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Source? Courts processing arrests and convictions are different things.
Actually the Guardian has reported they have already sentanced several that pled guilty of minor charges who were presumably caught in the act, one guy got 18 months for possesion another youth 6 for similer offences, in the UK magistrates (our JP's) have the power to sentance in the intitial phases.
My guess is that defense lawyers are advising their clients to plead not guilty just to delay things long enough for things to calm down, the danger of this is in english courts a not guilty plea when you are blatently guilty will get you a much longer sentace.
Apparently though the courts are well aware of public feeling and have been going 'Judge Jefferies' on all concerned, defence lawyers are stating they have never seen such a harsh responce by the courts.
English judges are way more likely to sentence 'emotionally' in my experience in general so this comes as no suprise.
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 08-12-2011 at 04:37 PM.
I made a comparison similar to this a long time ago, its hard to remember the specifics but there was a laser pointer incident at a soccer game and they had the guy apprehended in 5 or 10 minutes whereas the building staff in Vancouver after the laser pointer incident said they couldnt find the guy.
All this despite the fact that the crowd in the soccer stadium was almost triple then GM place's capacity.
There was propably at least triple the security too. For instance, major league soccer games in Europe often have a line of security people sitting between the crowd and the field, facing towards the crowd. Makes watching over the crowd much easier than how things typically are at hockey arenas.
There are other issues vis a vis VA vs London. I believe London has the highest number of surveillance cameras per square mile of any major city. Much easier to convict if you have them on film.
Unfortunatly the kids in the UK are very aware of this, hence their wearing hoodies and masks during the riots.
UK goverment is on it already! from todays Guardian.
Magistrates are being advised by the courts service to disregard normal sentencing guidelines when dealing with those convicted of offences committed in the context of last week's riots. The advice, given in open court by justices' clerks, will result in cases that would usually be disposed of in magistrates courts being referred to the crown court for more severe punishment. It may explain why some of those convicted have received punitive sentences for offences that might normally attract a far shorter term. In Manchester, a mother of two, Ursula Nevin, was jailed for five months for receiving a pair of shorts given to her after they had been looted from a city centre store. In Brixton, south London, a 23-year-old student was jailed for six months for stealing £3.50 worth of water bottles from a supermarket.
