Calgary divers angered by rescue snub

[shermanator]

To somewhat derail this thread, this whole story really pisses me off. Does anyone else think it was absolute stupidity for a man who hated water, and didn't know how to swim, to be convinced to go for a tube ride without a life jacket? Did they not think for a split second that there would be an issue if he fell in? Did they think they would grab him from the lake if he fell in? Him and his friends are a bunch of absolute idiots!

I can't swim myself, and I wouldn't get on a tube with 2 dinghy's strapped to my body. I sure hope the friends who convinced him to go on that boat ride now raise the 7 kids he left behind.

Dive teams should stop wasting their time recovering this body.

/rant

[ken0042]

Ok then. Somebody please explain to me how CFD getting there 20 minutes after he had already drowned would have helped. Resolute said .01% chance; I was thinking that it was already at 0.

The world record for holding breath underwater is just over 19 minutes. (Edit- Link) That was by a man who trained for that type of thing. As for people being pulled out of water and surviving after similar periods; those were often frozen lakes which preserved the body.

I can see how a fire fighter would have wanted to try. That is in their nature and what makes them so good at what they do. However I just don't see how they could have helped; and they could have put others at risk by being so far away in case there was an emergency on the Bow.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Dive teams should stop wasting their time recovering this body.

/rant

Ummm, because there's other reasons rescue teams remove bodies from lakes besides for the families sake? Like you know, so there isn't a body in a small lake that thousands of people, including many kids, use daily?

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Ummm, because there's other reasons rescue teams remove bodies from lakes besides for the families sake? Like you know, so there isn't a body in a small lake that thousands of people, including many kids, use daily?

Don't be selfish. By removing the body, and not letting it wash up on shore somewhere, they're indirectly ruining the coming of age of 4 kids. They could trek through the forest, overcoming many interal obstacles. Ultimately they could find the body, and become local heroes. They should be cautious though, Jack Bauer is hot on their trail.

[CM ONE]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Don't be selfish. By removing the body, and not letting it wash up on shore somewhere, they're indirectly ruining the coming of age of 4 kids. They could trek through the forest, overcoming many interal obstacles. Ultimately they could find the body, and become local heroes. They should be cautious though, Jack Bauer is hot on their trail.

I may be old but I'm reminded of Stand By Me. How far did they go to see the dead body of the guy hit by the train? It's part of growing up.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Ummm, because there's other reasons rescue teams remove bodies from lakes besides for the families sake? Like you know, so there isn't a body in a small lake that thousands of people, including many kids, use daily?

Touche. I think my main anger over the issue is a man didn't take any responsibility and now his 7 kids don't have a father.

[CM ONE]

I have 2 kids.

SEVEN!?! and they can't find a body?

HMMMMM?

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Ok then. Somebody please explain to me how CFD getting there 20 minutes after he had already drowned would have helped. Resolute said .01% chance; I was thinking that it was already at 0.

The world record for holding breath underwater is just over 19 minutes. (Edit- Link) That was by a man who trained for that type of thing. As for people being pulled out of water and surviving after similar periods; those were often frozen lakes which preserved the body.

I can see how a fire fighter would have wanted to try. That is in their nature and what makes them so good at what they do. However I just don't see how they could have helped; and they could have put others at risk by being so far away in case there was an emergency on the Bow.

Well with that logic, what's the point of sending any sort of response? Average CFD response time in Calgary is 7-9 minutes. Any drowning person would be dead by then...may as well not even try.

I really don't see why someone would be opposed to even sending them out. Calgary utilizes 3 dive teams out of three separate halls. Its no different than CFD going to some trivial call when they could "be out saving lives". The resources are there to be used and obviously given any sort of drowning or water rescue call, survival rates are going to be low. But I don't think that should be a deterrent to not utilizing them.

[greyshep]

Stating that they could have saved his life is pure fantasy. Its nice that they think that way, but I cant see any logistical way they could have accomplished this.

If by some miracle they actually were able to travel at mach speed, setup and dive and find the guy, the absolute best case would have been rescuing what would amout to a vegetable for the rest of his life. As was said above, this would be extremely unlikely anyway as the water is way too warm there right now to have these conditions met.

Good on CFD for being game, but I say let it go. Stating that you could have saved the guy makes you look foolish.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CM ONE

I have 2 kids.

SEVEN!?! and they can't find a body?

HMMMMM?

Ummmm, what point are you trying to make here?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Ummmm, what point are you trying to make here?

I'll admit to thinking it too. The guy may be an Olympic calibre swimmer for all we know, and is swimming his way to freedom.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by pylon

I'll admit to thinking it too. The guy may be an Olympic calibre swimmer for all we know, and is swimming his way to freedom.

Haha, I just clued in to what he was insinuating.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Well with that logic, what's the point of sending any sort of response? Average CFD response time in Calgary is 7-9 minutes. Any drowning person would be dead by then...may as well not even try.

I really don't see why someone would be opposed to even sending them out. Calgary utilizes 3 dive teams out of three separate halls. Its no different than CFD going to some trivial call when they could "be out saving lives". The resources are there to be used and obviously given any sort of drowning or water rescue call, survival rates are going to be low. But I don't think that should be a deterrent to not utilizing them.

Calgary fire department has been telling the surrounding communities sometheing along the lines of " we have enough on our plate, you have to look after yourselves for primary services but we are happy to help with any mutual assistance calls."

Because of this, the small volunteer fire departments around Calgary are going professional and the small towns have developed collaboration agreements for emergency services and non-emergency services like Victim recovery. When Chestermere FD went full-time, they dropped the boat because it wasn't used very much and the the amount of training was put to other things.

I think the Calgary Firefighter was out of line with the remark. THey certainly didndn't get to the lady who drowned at the edworthy park bridge last summer (or was that the summer before). I would gather that remarks are out of frustration, no one in the business likes to hear of a bad outcome.

I used to be involved in wilderness rescue and although it was an imprompromtu group focused on a rafting river in Quebec, there was always someone just a little too confident that our group could do everything, anything. The ones who had been out on the most calls were much more realistic about when we where showing up for body recovery and when we were in a position to get someone home in one piece.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by shermanator

To somewhat derail this thread, this whole story really pisses me off. Does anyone else think it was absolute stupidity for a man who hated water, and didn't know how to swim, to be convinced to go for a tube ride without a life jacket? Did they not think for a split second that there would be an issue if he fell in? Did they think they would grab him from the lake if he fell in? Him and his friends are a bunch of absolute idiots!

I can't swim myself, and I wouldn't get on a tube with 2 dinghy's strapped to my body. I sure hope the friends who convinced him to go on that boat ride now raise the 7 kids he left behind.

Dive teams should stop wasting their time recovering this body.

/rant

It really is mind-boggling isn't it. As soon as he got on that inner tube he had probably had a 50% chance of dying. Not great odds. I have never tried riding on an inner tube on a back of the boat but I have to assume most people fall in the water at some point.

[Hockeyguy15]

How have they not found the body yet, the lake isn't that big.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

How have they not found the body yet, the lake isn't that big.

I second that... unless we're dealing with one of the following I have no idea why they haven't found him yet:

a) eaten by lake monster
b) abducted by aliens
c) living in underwater city

[fundmark19]

Shouldn't the driver be charged with vehicular manslaughter? He killed a man while operating a motor vehicle. Anyone who is dumb enough to let someone ride a tube without a life jacket deserves some prison time. Let alone convincing that person to do it who is scared of water.

[ken0042]

The lake is 2.65 square kilometres; 2.65 million square metres. Assuming the divers can search 1 square metre every 10 seconds, that means over 7000 man hours required to search the whole lake.

They have already said that various electronic methods have failed due to the weeds and seaweed in the lake; so they are now doing a search by hand.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by greyshep

If by some miracle they actually were able to travel at mach speed, setup and dive and find the guy, the absolute best case would have been rescuing what would amout to a vegetable for the rest of his life.

CFD Dive teams have access to STARS to be transported to sites.

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Calgary fire department has been telling the surrounding communities sometheing along the lines of " we have enough on our plate, you have to look after yourselves for primary services but we are happy to help with any mutual assistance calls."

Because of this, the small volunteer fire departments around Calgary are going professional and the small towns have developed collaboration agreements for emergency services and non-emergency services like Victim recovery. When Chestermere FD went full-time, they dropped the boat because it wasn't used very much and the the amount of training was put to other things.

I think the Calgary Firefighter was out of line with the remark. THey certainly didndn't get to the lady who drowned at the edworthy park bridge last summer (or was that the summer before). I would gather that remarks are out of frustration, no one in the business likes to hear of a bad outcome.

I'm well aware of the politics between CFD and these parasite communities FD. That being said, the mutual aid agreements between these communities are pretty detailed and both sides should be well aware of what the other can offer. The dive team services southern alberta and obviously for various recovery/rescue missions. Obviously Chestermere needs to reevaluate if they need a boat team back.

[JD]

Originally Posted by ken0042

They have already said that various electronic methods have failed due to the weeds and seaweed in the lake; so they are now doing a search by hand.

Now THAT is a grisly task!

I get grossed out if a weed so much as brushes my foot.... Can't imagine searching amongst the weeds for a corpse!