Liberals attempt to bribe their way to a riding win! - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Ace · 01-13-2006, 03:13 PM

Liberals drop B.C. candidate over bribery claim

Quote:

"They offered a guaranteed municipal election seat in the next local general election," Hansen-Carlson told CTV Vancouver. "Throughout the discussion they also somehow promised a job with Mr. Oliver in Ottawa. The condition was I had to bow out of the race and publicly direct my supporters, my volunteers, to vote Liberal."

This will be super easy to spin nationally as the opposition pushes the corruption issue.

MarchHare · 01-13-2006, 03:32 PM

Meh...the Liberals did the right thing and booted him out of the party, just like the Tories did when one of their candidates in BC was accused of criminal charges.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2...ate060112.html

Ace · 01-13-2006, 03:58 PM

I agree that they seem like similar circumstances but they are WAY different. The concervative candidate lied about the investigation and so the conservatives booted him. The Liberal candidate was trying to directly influence the results of the election. A much more serious alegation, than a personal candidate issue.

MarchHare · 01-13-2006, 04:04 PM

If you can find any evidence that his actions were condoned or encouraged by the Liberal party, I'll support you on that sentiment. From what I'm seeing, though, this one individual candidate screwed up and the party booted him because of it. It's precisely the same as the Conservative situation.

RougeUnderoos · 01-13-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

I agree that they seem like similar circumstances but they are WAY different. The concervative candidate lied about the investigation and so the conservatives booted him. The Liberal candidate was trying to directly influence the results of the election. A much more serious alegation, than a personal candidate issue.

Oh please. Both candidates got caught doing something stupid and they both got punted. Don't paint this up as some big challenge to democracy.

This Zeisman is the guy that Nob Anders was drumming up support for in BC and the reason he missed all the meetings/has been invisible.

Would have been funny though if Zeisman had won the election but had to miss his first day of work because he had to go to court. That would have been a hell of a start for the new government.

Shawnski · 01-13-2006, 07:56 PM

Rouge and March, I concur that both situations, if proven true are worthy of dismissal from their respective parties.

But how on Earth can you compare, when following the money aspect in each case that they are even close? A few tax dollars possibly lost in duties in one case versus a position in Parliament for the other, and for WAY more tax payer funds, perhaps even one of the ridiculous pensions they receive.

Not condoning either, but to say they are equivalent is ludicrous. I totally agree with Ace here. To not recognize that the alleged situation with the Liberal candidate is far more serious than the alleged situation with the CPC candidate is like comparing someone who steals a candy bar versus someone that steals a car. It is clearly night and day. Both wrong.. but....

Mike F · 01-13-2006, 08:08 PM

This was framed as an attack on the Liberals, so what is relevant is the actions of the party.

In both cases there was something wrong done by a candidate, in both cases there was no indication that the party was involved, and in both cases the candidate was punted as soon as the facts surfaced.

As far as the Liberals vs. Conservatives debate, which keeps going on and on, both situations are equivalent, which is why it was silly to frame this as some Liberal scandal.

MarchHare · 01-13-2006, 08:12 PM

I was going to reply to Shawnski, but Mike F said precisely what I wanted to.

I concur that what was done by the formerly-Liberal candidate is a "worse" crime than what was done by the formerly-CPC candidate. What matters here, though, is the responses each party took. In both cases, their respective parties booted them from caucus, which was the correct action. To try to frame this as further corruption in the Liberal Party is totally unfounded.

Shawnski · 01-13-2006, 08:14 PM

yawnnnnn..... Keep the spin going guys....

MUD BOG... SLIMY.... NO TRACTION.... STUCK IN CHUCK.... GIVING THE GEARS... EDMONTON SUCKS..... JEEEEEEEP.......

<inspired by the Steve Armitage parody on the Fan960!!!>

Edit.. and FYI guys, you have to have a sense of humour in this... politics sucks.... hope you appreciate that I am posting fun at the topic, and not you.

RougeUnderoos · 01-13-2006, 08:18 PM

The guy is facing 6 criminal charges, possible jail time, and he was still running in the election. He didn't tell the people that were going to vote for him that he is has charges pending and he could end up in the jailhouse while he is their MP.

His petty (and incredibly stupid) crime of smuggling liquor and an old car into the country is not the big deal. The whole "fraud" aspect of what he was up to is what makes it a big deal, and just as bad as the move by the Liberal jackass who was also trying to defraud his voters.

Flame On · 01-13-2006, 08:35 PM

Isn't smuggling both a crime and tax evasion so technically he's both being a criminal and trying to take money out of your tax paying pocket? Ironic that he literally stole a car too well sorta twisting that one but thought I'd try it on

Your analogy Shawnski is transparently weighted. It's more like someone offering to steal items from someones car; like the stereo system and the other taking the whole car. Christ you might as well have said that criminal smuggling was tant amount to j walking in comparison to the a multiple murder suicide plot is to the ex liberal candidate.
Nice spin attempt however.

FlamesAddiction · 01-13-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame On

Isn't smuggling both a crime and tax evasion so technically he's both being a criminal and trying to take money out of your tax paying pocket? Ironic that he literally stole a car too well sorta twisting that one but thought I'd try it on

He hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Innocent until proven guilty. Same with the Liberal candidate.

But both parties were right for dropping them. At this point, things like this are not good for either party even if they are just allegations.

Shawnski · 01-13-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame On

Your analogy Shawnski is transparently weighted. It's more like someone offering to steal items from someones car; like the stereo system and the other taking the whole car. Christ you might as well have said that criminal smuggling was tant amount to j walking in comparison to the a multiple murder suicide plot is to the ex liberal candidate.
Nice spin attempt however.

Grand theft auto.... versus petty theft.

The spin cycle just went on reverse...

RougeUnderoos · 01-13-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Grand theft auto.... versus petty theft.

The spin cycle just went on reverse...

Come on now. They were both lying and cheating in order to get elected. It's not "stealing car vs stealing chocolate bar". It's stealing car versus stealing van.

And if it's tax-payer money you are so worried about, who was going to foot the bill for all the time-wasting bluster in the House and the by-election that would have been mandatory when everyone figured out the new MP can't do his job because he has to be in court and may wind up in jail?

Shawnski · 01-13-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Come on now. They were both lying and cheating in order to get elected. It's not "stealing car vs stealing chocolate bar". It's stealing car versus stealing van.

And if it's tax-payer money you are so worried about, who was going to foot the bill for all the time-wasting bluster in the House and the by-election that would have been mandatory when everyone figured out the new MP can't do his job because he has to be in court and may wind up in jail?

I can be as objective as anyone out there.... but seriously... an old car and some booze versus bribing your way into Parliament? The car vs choco bar was MILD in comparison...... it's not even close.

Bobblehead · 01-13-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I can be as objective as anyone out there.... but seriously... an old car and some booze versus bribing your way into Parliament? The car vs choco bar was MILD in comparison...... it's not even close.

Yeah, a guy who would jeopardize his polical car for "an old car and some booze". Imagine what he could have done with his hand in the public purse!

They both showed poor character, they both got turfed. Good for both parties.

RougeUnderoos · 01-13-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I can be as objective as anyone out there.... but seriously... an old car and some booze versus bribing your way into Parliament? The car vs choco bar was MILD in comparison...... it's not even close.

The guy was lying to his own party and to the people who were about to elect him to be their representative in Parliament. He is only weeks away from facing felony charges. Don't you think that's a problem?

It's not a big deal if he is Joe Nobody. It is a big deal, and a very big and expensive hassle for you taxpaying types, when it comes out just a few weeks after the election that he has to go to court to defend himself against these charges. It becomes even a bigger deal if he is found guilty and is then a convicted felon who might be on his way to jail.

This is a silly argument. Both of these guys are clearly fools. Arguing over who is the bigger dummy of the pair is pointless, but I doubt I'll concede my point.

Zarathustra · 01-13-2006, 10:41 PM

Politics is such a dirty game, it is really disgraceful.

Shawnski · 01-13-2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

He is only weeks away from facing felony charges.

yeah... I would like the link to the "felony charges" allegation please....

RougeUnderoos · 01-14-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

yeah... I would like the link to the "felony charges" allegation please....

Hey you might have me there. I don't have a link. I just figured that smuggling an illegal car full of illegal booze across the border and then lying to the customs people about probably amounts to a heap of trouble. Maybe it's not a felony. I don't know.