RIM Cuts 2000 Jobs

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The problem with RIM is that it's a company full of engineers, hiring more engineers from Waterloo, etc. There are no great idea people, marketers, industrial designers, etc. For years, Blackberries were the ugliest phones in the world without the features that grabs the attention of the general public. There's really nothing special about the Blackberry anymore (many alternatives to BBM, many phones with physical keyboards). RIM is basically Apple in the 1990s.

For Oil and Gas companies where the pipeline buys your oil or gas if it's pipeline spec regardless this is a good thing.

For companies that make sales based on customer taste this is a horrible thing.

[Tinordi]

I went short on RIM about 4 months ago. Was a good time. It was so clear to see that they were done.

[Resolute 14]

FWIW, the net cuts is only 500, given RIM has hired 1500 people since February.

The company does stand at a crossroads, however. I have a Storm, and I like it, but unless the next gen Blackberries can do what the other makers can, I'll very likely be going Android or Win 7 on my next phone.

[burn_this_city]

Once an alternative to BBM becomes popular, BB is done. Seems like the only reason anyone my age has a BB is for BBM. Eventually people will realize it isnt worth a junky phone for a texting program. I had one for a couple years, and frankly I hated everything about it.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Once an alternative to BBM becomes popular, BB is done. Seems like the only reason anyone my age has a BB is for BBM. Eventually people will realize it isnt worth a junky phone for a texting program. I had one for a couple years, and frankly I hated everything about it.

Things like WhatsApp already make BBM almost obsolete. Virtually no data usage, no texting fees, etc.

[Kybosh]

I have an iphone 3GS for personal and a BB bold 9780 for work. The iphone kills the BB is almost all regards for my purposes. I frequently email work documents from my BB to my iphone so I can read them easier when I'm away from the office. Everything about the BB irks me.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Things like WhatsApp already make BBM almost obsolete. Virtually no data usage, no texting fees, etc.

When iOS 5 comes in the fall it will have iMessage built in which is a better version of BBM. It's not cross platform (not that I know of) like BBM, but since it's built in to the most popular phone in the country it will kill BBM.

[puckluck]

Yeah, as soon as the iphone gets its own messaging system I am finally going to leave Blackberry. The only reason I have a BB is for BBM. Blackberries are still tons better though in writing emails and stuff like that.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by fotze

Can any IT folks explain why a company actually chooses the BB for its employees over the iphone? Cost I assume is the only factor?

Security. Apple and Google are no where near Blackberry security. The US gov't just approved the playbook last week for use, due to strong enough security. This is the one thing RIM wins hands down right now.

I can tell you a story about a networking company that had this advantage 20 years ago. Very similar story. You probably haven't heard of Novell, since everyone uses Windows Networking now. In 10 years, I can see RIM in the same spot. Google will figure out security, just like MSFT did, and bye bye RIM.

[burn_this_city]

The security thing is overrated. We havent used RIM for 3 years in our office, no security issues from what I've heard.

[Rathji]

Just the fact that I wont need to deal with annoying BES and the hassle of users coming in with their own devices that are not provisioned for BES means I don't suggest people get Blackberry's here (we all just use personal phones right now).

edit:

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The security thing is overrated. We havent used RIM for 3 years in our office, no security issues from what I've heard.

Considering the measures some companies go though to secure their data, forcing their users to have Blackberry's over iPhones etc is a pretty tame requirement. Not something I have personal experience with though, just heard some stories of vacuum sealed data conduits that guillotine the lines if the seal is broken...

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by fotze

Can any IT folks explain why a company actually chooses the BB for its employees over the iphone? Cost I assume is the only factor?

Because we don't need people playing Doodle Jump all day and then complaining that their phone battery doesn't last long enough.

All we have to provide to our users is phone, email, calendar, and contacts. We need to provide a business device not a personal device. We don't need to provide them with Need For Speed 18 and Angry Birds St. Patrick's day edition. All these extras just mean more problems...battery drain, more data usage = more cost, more time wasted using an app to put breasts on pics of their coworkers. I don't really feel like dealing with the thousands of malware apps on the Android Market either.

I also find Blackberry's to be pretty tough....we have a user that would go through a phone a month but he has been on the same Blackberry for the last 2 years. I have dropped my Blackberry countless times and even accidentally tossed it across the street while running and it barely has a scratch. Phones that last longer mean less work for me.

Now after saying all that I am pretty sure by this time next year we will not be a RIM shop. As IT support this will be a pain...but as a user I will be very happy.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fotze

Agree fully. Had to move back to the BB from the iphone. What a door stopper. Got a bunch of urgent attachments, pdf's, photos on Sunday. Open them, frustratingly slow of course, then the slarp of what is displayed what mind boggling. What the fata is that I'm looking at? Oh, I'll zoom, 10 seconds later, giant pixels appear. Completely useless. I actually had it on the counter and my fist raised to smash the turd.

I can't say how ANYONE can say it is better for business purposes. I used to think the one thing is the typing was easier, NOPE, its fataing annoying.

I hadn't used the BB in 2-3 years and I don't notice any change, the clit ball is gone.

Can any IT folks explain why a company actually chooses the BB for its employees over the iphone? Cost I assume is the only factor?

I agree with you on the attachment issue, but for *actual* business the blackberry is better. Things like finding a contact, setting an appointment, typing an email are much easier on the blackberry.

I know that each little point by themselves doesn't seem like much. Frankly if I were a 15 year old with 25 contacts it wouldn't even be a care of mine. I probably have about 2000-2500 contacts in my phone though, and seriously apple you are going to make me scroll through everyone whose name begins with "S" until I get to the guy? (And thats after pressing the miniscule little "S" on the right hand side!). Gimme a break.

The calendar on the iphone is also just not user friendly. Again if I were using this for personal stuff I might not care....but you can't move day to day by swiping and when you do pick a day you can't just touch where you want an appointment. It just picks some random time on the day, or maybe somewhere near the time of day it is now? Either way...IIRC the old Palm units had a way for you to set an appointment that was easier than this!

As far as typing, don't even start with the great touch keyboard. The auto-correct on those things is bloody atrocious! How you would ever use that to type out a reasonably lengthed email is beyond me.

Realistically what all of these corporations need to do is sit down with the users and actually see what would make the products more user friendly. The best thing out there is probably a combination of the two, or maybe it doesn't exist at all...

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Slava

I agree with you on the attachment issue, but for *actual* business the blackberry is better. Things like finding a contact, setting an appointment, typing an email are much easier on the blackberry.

I know that each little point by themselves doesn't seem like much. Frankly if I were a 15 year old with 25 contacts it wouldn't even be a care of mine. I probably have about 2000-2500 contacts in my phone though, and seriously apple you are going to make me scroll through everyone whose name begins with "S" until I get to the guy? (And thats after pressing the miniscule little "S" on the right hand side!). Gimme a break.

The calendar on the iphone is also just not user friendly. Again if I were using this for personal stuff I might not care....but you can't move day to day by swiping and when you do pick a day you can't just touch where you want an appointment. It just picks some random time on the day, or maybe somewhere near the time of day it is now? Either way...IIRC the old Palm units had a way for you to set an appointment that was easier than this!

As far as typing, don't even start with the great touch keyboard. The auto-correct on those things is bloody atrocious! How you would ever use that to type out a reasonably lengthed email is beyond me.

Realistically what all of these corporations need to do is sit down with the users and actually see what would make the products more user friendly. The best thing out there is probably a combination of the two, or maybe it doesn't exist at all...

That's funny, I personally find composing emails with the touchscreen iphone to be much less painful than typing on the BB keyboard. I can easily compose large emails in a fraction of the time that I can on the BB. Also, auto-correct is only a problem for people who don't proofread as they write or before they send IMO.

I do like the contact sorting/search on the BB and synching everything with my work outlook is nice . . . but aside from clerical stuff. . . the BB sucks. As I said before, reading documents on the fly or checking out emailed pictures drives me up the wall.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

That's funny, I personally find composing emails with the touchscreen iphone to be much less painful than typing on the BB keyboard. I can easily compose large emails in a fraction of the time I can on the BB. Also, auto-correct is only a problem for people who don't proofread as they write or before they send IMO.

I do like the contact sorting/search on the BB and synching everything with my work outlook is nice . . . but aside from clerical stuff. . . the BB sucks. As I said before, reading documents on the fly or checking out emailed pictures drives me up the wall.

Well the irritation for the auto-correct isn't just that I would send emails with the wrong words. Its that the system picks the most ridiculous words to substitute and does it automatically as soon as you hit the space bar. I was so happy to be free from that stupidity....yes I missed a letter when typing the word "around" and probably meant "Arlington".....brilliant.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Slava

I agree with you on the attachment issue, but for *actual* business the blackberry is better. Things like finding a contact, setting an appointment, typing an email are much easier on the blackberry.

I know that each little point by themselves doesn't seem like much. Frankly if I were a 15 year old with 25 contacts it wouldn't even be a care of mine. I probably have about 2000-2500 contacts in my phone though, and seriously apple you are going to make me scroll through everyone whose name begins with "S" until I get to the guy? (And thats after pressing the miniscule little "S" on the right hand side!). Gimme a break.

The calendar on the iphone is also just not user friendly. Again if I were using this for personal stuff I might not care....but you can't move day to day by swiping and when you do pick a day you can't just touch where you want an appointment. It just picks some random time on the day, or maybe somewhere near the time of day it is now? Either way...IIRC the old Palm units had a way for you to set an appointment that was easier than this!

As far as typing, don't even start with the great touch keyboard. The auto-correct on those things is bloody atrocious! How you would ever use that to type out a reasonably lengthed email is beyond me.

Realistically what all of these corporations need to do is sit down with the users and actually see what would make the products more user friendly. The best thing out there is probably a combination of the two, or maybe it doesn't exist at all...

I couldnt agree more with all you said. I have been 'testing' iOS (on my iPod) as a replacement for my Blackberry later this year, and there are so many things that just suck. The autocorrect isnt so bad, but its onyl really required because it is so hard to type accurately with any speed. Even after a month the typing is not anywhere close to my Blackberry for speed. Even the fact that to enter a number into a password requires you to switch keyboards then switch back, doubling keystrokes.

My wife constantly has issues with sending or changing/deleting appt invites on her iPhone. I have never seen anything like that on my Blackberry. The fact that I dont have push email for my gmail annoys me I assume there is a way to change that but it hasn't been a priority.

All that said - even my 3rd Gen iPod touch blows my BB out of the water. I really don't imagine I will stay with Blackberry after this phone.

[Hack&Lube]

I discovered the voice recognition feature on my Android phone. I don't think I will type anything again on a virtual or physical keypad on a phone again if I can help it! People will just look at me funny for speaking slowly and over enunciating into my phone probably though. Regardless, it works much better than I expected and I can speak faster than I can Swype™.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Once an alternative to BBM becomes popular, BB is done. Seems like the only reason anyone my age has a BB is for BBM. Eventually people will realize it isnt worth a junky phone for a texting program. I had one for a couple years, and frankly I hated everything about it.

I don't even get the big deal about BBM. I had a BB for 3 years and stopped using BBM after a month. It pissed me off that people could tell whether I had read their message. And since text is unlimited, why even bother with BBM? The text program keeps it in a conversation like sequence anyway. BBM is useless.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What they really need to do is specialize and corner one section of the market instead of trying to appeal to everyone. I have a Blackberry and I like it, and most people I know who do a lot of field work use them and prefer them because they can put up with a lot more abuse than some of the other products out there. If you're going to get them dirty, drop them and expose them to the elements, Blackberries are the way to go. When it comes to the general market though, Apple and Android are just more pretty and bubbly. If I knew that their wasn't a good chance of me standing outside in a muddy field during rainstorm using my phone, I'd probably get an iPhone.

I sort of agree, and I sort of disagree. I'd rather not drop my iphone, but I did just that yesterday. Glad I have this $50 otter case on it.
As for the rain, I was standing in a parking lot this morning, in the pouring rain, getting screwed by a faulty machine, so I decided to take a picture of the phone number of the complaint line, as well as the machine ID number. I thought to myself that I'm glad I'm doing this with an iphone rather than a BB since you can just wipe off the phone with a sleeve and it's dry. No buttons or crevices for water to get in and under.


And Slava, the search function you seek does exist on the iphone. You scroll all the way to the left and just start typing the contact you're looking for. It's exactly the same as BB.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't even get the big deal about BBM. I had a BB for 3 years and stopped using BBM after a month. It pissed me off that people could tell whether I had read their message. And since text is unlimited, why even bother with BBM? The text program keeps it in a conversation like sequence anyway. BBM is useless.



I sort of agree, and I sort of disagree. I'd rather not drop my iphone, but I did just that yesterday. Glad I have this $50 otter case on it.
As for the rain, I was standing in a parking lot this morning, in the pouring rain, getting screwed by a faulty machine, so I decided to take a picture of the phone number of the complaint line, as well as the machine ID number. I thought to myself that I'm glad I'm doing this with an iphone rather than a BB since you can just wipe off the phone with a sleeve and it's dry. No buttons or crevices for water to get in and under.


And Slava, the search function you seek does exist on the iphone. You scroll all the way to the left and just start typing the contact you're looking for. It's exactly the same as BB.

Sure, they have their fixes there, but its overall annoying and could be so much simpler.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Slava

I probably have about 2000-2500 contacts in my phone though, and seriously apple you are going to make me scroll through everyone whose name begins with "S" until I get to the guy? (And thats after pressing the miniscule little "S" on the right hand side!). Gimme a break.

I used to rage at this too until I found out you can hold your thumb down on the side of the screen and "scroll" through everyone rapidly instead of trying to pinpoint the letter you're looking for.

That same thing applies to fixing spelling mistakes. Hold your thumb down and the cursor inside of the magnifying glass can be positioned to the spot you want to edit rather than trying to double touch the screen with ninja precision that's impossible with human digits.