Oslo Bombing *Updated in first post*

[CaptainCrunch]

Could have been I'm fuzzy about that, but I thought there was an announcement made by some group about removing troops from the middle east.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by 868904

However, muslims are really the only ones who can stop this.

Yet all they ever do is say "oh this is not the real us" and sit there with their arms crossed.

Muslims should really be leading the counter terrorist efforts to save their religion, beliefs and name.

You're welcome to join me tomorrow where I will be catching the first flight to Iraq and meeting with alqaida where I ask them politely to put their weapons down because they're not true muslims.

We'll only need one way flights.

In your opinions what should the good muslims do to stop their cowardly acts? Do you think terrorists are actually capable of being reasonable?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure, but the other issues that were caused by 9/11 had a large part in the American Economy besides the actual money spend, which was huge.

American confidence was hard.

The govenment moved their focus away from domestic issues to foreign issues

The distraction of America's middle generation as they went off to war.

The removal of a flexible government that had a streak of panic in it.

To connect the sub-prime crisis to 9/11. A lot of people blame the sub-prime crisis on the cheap money that Alan Greenspan allowed by dropping the fed rate so low after 9/11 to re-instil confidence.

[Thor]

Spain was a Al Qaeda inspired attack, no ETA involvement, the London 7/7 bombings were local home grown Islamic terrorists.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by puckluck

You're welcome to join me tomorrow where I will be catching the first flight to Iraq and meeting with alqaida where I ask them politely to put their weapons down because they're not true muslims.

We'll only need one way flights.

In your opinions what should the good muslims do to stop their cowardly acts? Do you think terrorists are actually capable of being reaosnable?

I think we're kind of taking literally what the original poster said. But there are things that do need to happen from a Muslim side to curb the growth of extremism, that wouldn't involve them putting their head of the chopping block.

Remember that the reformation didn't really start to happen until one man nailed a note to a door.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by puckluck

You're welcome to join me tomorrow where I will be catching the first flight to Iraq and meeting with alqaida where I ask them politely to put their weapons down because they're not true muslims.

We'll only need one way flights.

In your opinions what should the good muslims do to stop their cowardly acts? Do you think terrorists are actually capable of being reaosnable?

What? You mean to tell me that all moderate Muslims don't know the exact locations and identities of every terrorist cell in the world, nor possess the firepower or logistical capabilities to effectivley organize a counterstrike on these cells? Preposterous!

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think we're kind of taking literally what the original poster said. But there are things that do need to happen from a Muslim side to curb the growth of extremism, that wouldn't involve them putting their head of the chopping block.

Remember that the reformation didn't really start to happen until one man nailed a note to a door.

The thing is these cowards believe what they believe so strongly that NOTHING will ever change them.

And I've said this before and will say it again. The sheiks in Calgary and across Canada DO speak out against these extremists. I hear it every time I go to the Mosque on Friday.

It's so much easier said than done when you're dealing with a bunch of people with so much hate in their heart.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure, but the other issues that were caused by 9/11 had a large part in the American Economy besides the actual money spend, which was huge.

American confidence was hard.

The govenment moved their focus away from domestic issues to foreign issues

The distraction of America's middle generation as they went off to war.

The removal of a flexible government that had a streak of panic in it.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The American economy would have collapsed regardless of any terrorist attacks. The sub-prime mortgage crisis had its roots in the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration did nothing about it, and in fact encouraged it much further.

The sub-prime mortage crisis essentially turned the American economy into one big pyramid scheme with people making money off lending money to other people with no actualy assets to back up the loans. The problems caused by this were so widespread that "distractions" weren't really the issue. There simply was no way to rectify the problem without collapsing the house of cards.

By the time September 11 happened things were already out of control, and Bush was not about to plunge the economy into a recession before re-election to his second term.

Housing prices peaked in 2005/2006 and then began to drop. George Bush's second term commenced in 2005.

Did the economies of Iceland, Greece, and Ireland collapse due to 9/11 as well? All those governments were also too distracted?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by puckluck

The thing is these cowards believe what they believe so strongly that NOTHING will ever change them.

And I've said this before and will say it again. The sheiks in Calgary and across Canada DO speak out against these extremists. I hear it every time I go to the Mosque on Friday.

It's so much easier said than done when you're dealing with a bunch of people with so much hate in their heart.

It's such an ignorant, elitist, and pretty much racist point of view that all these extremists need is a good talking to from the "other ones" in the group.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by puckluck

The thing is these cowards believe what they believe so strongly that NOTHING will ever change them.

And I've said this before and will say it again. The sheiks in Calgary and across Canada DO speak out against these extremists. I hear it every time I go to the Mosque on Friday.

It's so much easier said than done when you're dealing with a bunch of people with so much hate in their heart.

I'm on your side of this Puckluck, however one of the common things that I've heard in the last couple of years especially related to these homegrown cells, is people exclaiming that he was a member of his mosque, and he talked about radical beliefs, and yet he was a member of the mosque until the day he was arrested, killed, tired to pull off or pulled off his scheme.

I think that there is a bit of fear or indecision or whatever when it comes to how these nut bars are being dealt with, and maybe its due to fear or whatever.

And I do note that we are hearing from some senior clerics or members condemning these acts, which to me is awesome.

[Thor]

7.11pm: The New York Times has more on the claim of responsibility by an Islamist group (thanks to Marta Hernandez Salvan for passing this on):
A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (the Helpers of the Global Jihad), issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at CNA, a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces' presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. "We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations," the group said, apparently referred to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010, according to Mr McCants' translation. "What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come." The claim could not be confirmed.

Latest.

[d_phaneuf]

ketilbstensrud Ketil B. Stensrud
LATEST: This eye-witness was assisting police by evacuating youths in his boat. Apparently, he could count 20-30 people shot dead. Awful.


Absolutely tragic if true

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blankall

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The American economy would have collapsed regardless of any terrorist attacks. The sub-prime mortgage crisis had its roots in the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration did nothing about it, and in fact encouraged it much further.

The sub-prime mortage crisis essentially turned the American economy into one big pyramid scheme with people making money off lending money to other people with no actualy assets to back up the loans. The problems caused by this were so widespread that "distractions" weren't really the issue. There simply was no way to rectify the problem without collapsing the house of cards.

By the time September 11 happened things were already out of control, and Bush was not about to plunge the economy into a recession before re-election to his second term.

Housing prices peaked in 2005/2006 and then began to drop. George Bush's second term commenced in 2005.

I rarely argue economics because I'm pretty much a toothless moron when it comes to it.

But while the trouble may have been coming, the American Government was too focuses on other things to react to it in a apropriate time.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I rarely argue economics because I'm pretty much a toothless moron when it comes to it.

But while the trouble may have been coming, the American Government was too focuses on other things to react to it in a apropriate time.

I disagree. The American Government wasn't inactive in the credit issue at all. In fact, they were giving incentives to the big banks to keep it going. A lack of focus wasn't the problem. The problem was they were pursuing the exact opposite policy they should have. It also wasn't just the American government doing it. The same thing happened all across Europe as well. It happened in countries who were in no way involved in the wars, and it was much worse in some European markets.

If anything having the government less involved would have been a good thing. At least the status quo would have been maintained. Instead a policy that filled the cart up even more before it was pushed over the edge was pursued.

The American government is a big organization. They can multi-task.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm on your side of this Puckluck, however one of the common things that I've heard in the last couple of years especially related to these homegrown cells, is people exclaiming that he was a member of his mosque, and he talked about radical beliefs, and yet he was a member of the mosque until the day he was arrested, killed, tired to pull off or pulled off his scheme.

I think that there is a bit of fear or indecision or whatever when it comes to how these nut bars are being dealt with, and maybe its due to fear or whatever.

And I do note that we are hearing from some senior clerics or members condemning these acts, which to me is awesome.

I think it's often hard to determine:

A) how serious or capable someone is of pulling off an attack
and
B) how to effectively deal with the person if you fear they are capable/serious

I do know that many of the arrests that have been made to prevent these attacks were helped tremendously by members of the mosques/communities the would-be terrorists were affiliated with, but I also understand that there are pretty real fears of repercussions from other extremists that prevent people from going to the authorities.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Really? So Christians have never engaged in acts of extremism because of something that offended them? Is this something you honestly believe?

You created your own context with my post.

The remark was made that you don't see ("see" indicating a modern day context) Christians and Buddhists respond like this (ie. bombing a building) when they get offended at lousy cartoons or written stories. The poster did NOT say "Christians or Buddhists have never engaged in acts of extremism after being offended".

Have Christians engaged in acts of extremism in the past: obviously

Do they actively, whether part of a fringe element or not, promote terrorism as a response to blasphemy? Not that I am aware of.
I'm pretty sure that some may pray for hellfire and brimstone to succumb the blasphemous, but they do not physically carry out the acts like some fringe Islamic groups do.... At least not on the same scale (understatement).

[Canuck-Hater]

Some interesting news in the alternative media, its all speculation but this article summarizes the possibilities.

http://www.infowars.com/oslo-bombing...ekar-to-blame/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/norway-b...e-in-oslo.html

Interesting takes, its probably too early to say who was responsible, and what the cause of the explosion was.

I refuse to watch the mainstream idiot box, especially staying away from CNN.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by puckluck

You're welcome to join me tomorrow where I will be catching the first flight to Iraq and meeting with alqaida where I ask them politely to put their weapons down because they're not true muslims.

We'll only need one way flights.

In your opinions what should the good muslims do to stop their cowardly acts? Do you think terrorists are actually capable of being reasonable?

How about just kicking out the radical religious leaders that are found within your religious institutions. Where you can't because they represent the majority you can separate yourself from them and call them what they are. You might try beginning the odd religious services with "O Canada". Remember to honour our fallen on Remembrance day. Publically recongnize the right of Israel to exist. Praise the Canadian contribution to the liberation of Afganistan. It's not perfect yet but, women do have the right to an education and to vote. Be careful that the Islamic charities that you support are not funneling resources to our enemies. There is a lot that you can do to draw a line and allow people to affirm what side they are on.

You might be doing all that already but, there are many supposed Moderates who are not. Because if they were we wouldn't find links on the net to radical schools in the UK or failed terrorist attacks who attended and worshiped in local Islamic institutions.

[OILFAN #81]

Tragic. Thoughts go out to all the victims/familes of this horrible event. A big eff u to Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami. Terrorists are such effing cowards killing innocent people. Makes me sick.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Some interesting news in the alternative media, its all speculation but this article summarizes the possibilities.

http://www.infowars.com/oslo-bombing...ekar-to-blame/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/norway-b...e-in-oslo.html

Interesting takes, its probably too early to say who was responsible, and what the cause of the explosion was.

I refuse to watch the mainstream idiot box, especially staying away from CNN.

Didn't click the links but can only assume that Bush was responsible.