Brodie Discussion

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Husky

What a pointless post. The heat werent an offensive team. How does a D rack up points if the forwards struggle to score at times.

what an inane post....

..... the lack of scoring on the Heat was definitely not the fault of the TJ Brodie - NHL calibre PP specialist?

What has Brodie done to show that he is an NHL calibre PP specialist?



Anders freaking Erikkson in the same stiffling system put up 45 pts.


They gave Smith a 105,000 signing bonus and a 700k NHL contract.

Smith had 54 points and was the 4th highest scoring D-man in the AHL.

Willson was the 8th highest scoring AHL D-man last year and played on Team USA at the world championships with Ryan McDonagh, Jack Johnson, Mark Stuart, Cam Fowler, Mike Komisarek and Kevin Shattenkirk.

I don't recall Brodie turning down an invitation to anchor the Canadian PP.

Wilson gets paid 300K on his AHL contract this year and a has a one-way deal next year.

Brodie will have to be substainsialy better this training camp and exhibition games this year get be considered for the NHL.

It will be a lot more difficult to get noticed and get exhibition game ice time as last year as he was basically the only guy competing for the #7 offensive D-man spot. After he was sent down Mikkleson and later Carson were brought in.

Someone point me to some rational explanation why Brodie is ready to step up:

Is he bigger and stronger this year? A better faster skater? Taken boxing lessons?


Is his getting slotted on the NHL roster based on Playfair saying that he was one of the 4 Heat players that might have a shot in the NHL some day?

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

what an inane post....

..... the lack of scoring on the Heat was definitely not the fault of the TJ Brodie - NHL calibre PP specialist?

What has Brodie done to show that he is an NHL calibre PP specialist?



Anders freaking Erikkson in the same stiffling system put up 45 pts.


They gave Smith a 105,000 signing bonus and a 700k NHL contract.

Smith had 54 points and was the 4th highest scoring D-man in the AHL.

Willson was the 8th highest scoring AHL D-man last year and played on Team USA at the world championships with Ryan McDonagh, Jack Johnson, Mark Stuart, Cam Fowler, Mike Komisarek and Kevin Shattenkirk.

I don't recall Brodie turning down an invitation to anchor the Canadian PP.

Wilson gets paid 300K on his AHL contract this year and a has a one-way deal next year.

Brodie will have to be substainsialy better this training camp and exhibition games this year get be considered for the NHL.

It will be a lot more difficult to get noticed and get exhibition game ice time as last year as he was basically the only guy competing for the #7 offensive D-man spot. After he was sent down Mikkleson and later Carson were brought in.

Someone point me to some rational explanation why Brodie is ready to step up:

Is he bigger and stronger this year? A better faster skater? Taken boxing lessons?


Is his getting slotted on the NHL roster based on Playfair saying that he was one of the 4 Heat players that might have a shot in the NHL some day?

Was Anders Ericsson a #3 point getter on his team in his rookie year? For the record he got 42 points in 75 games after coming over from the SEL. This is not about the system, its about the players on the team. The heat started the year as the youngest team in the AHL (ended it second I believe), and had pretty much no AHL vets on forward to help them get points. Despite that, Brodie still managed to put up points.

He might not be an NHL ready quarterback, but he definately shouldn't be critisized for his lack of production.

As for why he should be NHL ready this year, it's hard to say. I'm not sure he is. His defensive game made strides last year, but it could probably use another year of the same. I have no doubt he's gotten stronger again this year as that's somethign he's really focused on.

[Husky]

Im thinking Andy Delmore would have liked to work on his defensive game and lasted is a little longer in the NHL. Pure offense isnt everything...

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Was Anders Ericsson a #3 point getter on his team in his rookie year? For the record he got 42 points in 75 games after coming over from the SEL. This is not about the system, its about the players on the team. The heat started the year as the youngest team in the AHL (ended it second I believe), and had pretty much no AHL vets on forward to help them get points. Despite that, Brodie still managed to put up points.

He might not be an NHL ready quarterback, but he definately shouldn't be critisized for his lack of production.

As for why he should be NHL ready this year, it's hard to say. I'm not sure he is. His defensive game made strides last year, but it could probably use another year of the same. I have no doubt he's gotten stronger again this year as that's somethign he's really focused on.

His lack of production should qualify him for a NHL roster spot?

I am saying that he did very little to improve on his chances from last year. With better competion being brought in with his particular skill set he has moved further away from the chance to break into the NHL that he had last year.

I am pretty sure that Brett Sutter and 99% of the NHL coaches will want a better player and a better chance of winning (and keeping their job) rather than playing someone because he is 21 years old.



Bouma didn't score much or play big very much ....

Does he have a better chance of sticking with the Flames because they need more grit and he was the best option last year? Or has the Desbiens and PLLL aquistion moved him futher away from the NHL roster?

The guys that move up from the AHL to the NHL dominate in the AHL... Backlund, Lundmark, Giordano showed they were head and shoulders above the rest of the AHL prospects. Prust had 3 solid AHL season in his role (over 200PM and 10 goals) befor he got a sniff.

Gio's 58 pts in the AHL in 2005-6 got him a look as the Flames 7th D-man in 2006-07

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

His lack of production should qualify him for a NHL roster spot?

I am saying that he did very little to improve on his chances from last year. With better competion being brought in with his particular skill set he has moved further away from the chance to break into the NHL that he had last year.

I am pretty sure that Brett Sutter and 99% of the NHL coaches will want a better player and a better chance of winning (and keeping their job) rather than playing someone because he is 21 years old.



Bouma didn't score much or play big very much ....

Does he have a better chance of sticking with the Flames because they need more grit and he was the best option last year? Or has the Desbiens and PLLL aquistion moved him futher away from the NHL roster?

The guys that move up from the AHL to the NHL dominate in the AHL... Backlund, Lundmark, Giordano showed they were head and shoulders above the rest of the AHL prospects. Prust had 3 solid AHL season in his role (over 200PM and 10 goals) befor he got a sniff.

Gio's 58 pts in the AHL in 2005-6 got him a look as the Flames 7th D-man in 2006-07

I'm just saying that you have to compare the players performance relative to the rest of thier team. I don't know if he's ready. I doubt he is, but compared to the rest of the defense in Abbostford last year, he, along with Breen, looked head and shoulders better than the rest of the players (Negrin was injured for most of the season, so hard to say how he'd look, but he'd probably look as good). If Brodie got 58 points last year he'd have been the best point producer on the team, bar none, something that almost never happens to defensemen, even the offensive kind.

To me, Negrin and Wilson have a better chance of making the team than Brodie this year as Brodie, despite the strides he took, still has some stuff to work on and playing time will suite him better than being #7 in the NHL.

Edit:
Omaha was the best team in the west division that year, indicating they had a lot more talent. Dustin Boyd had 60 pts that year, and there were a number around the 45-50 pt mark.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The guys that move up from the AHL to the NHL dominate in the AHL... Backlund, Lundmark, Giordano showed they were head and shoulders above the rest of the AHL prospects. Prust had 3 solid AHL season in his role (over 200PM and 10 goals) befor he got a sniff.

If memory serves, Backlund was very mediocre before being called up by the Flames. He looked good here, was returned to the AHL for a short period and absolutely dominated...then tailed off at the end of the season. He finalized his spot via training camp.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by kirant

If memory serves, Backlund was very mediocre before being called up by the Flames. He looked good here, was returned to the AHL for a short period and absolutely dominated...then tailed off at the end of the season. He finalized his spot via training camp.

It really helps being a 1st round draft pick and being one of the top players at the WJC.

Erixon will be given a much better chance of making the Rangers than any of the Flames #7 spot competitors no matter how he performs at Camp and exhibition. He would have to be awful not to make the opening day roster.

That would be the same reason Mikkleson had less than 100 AHL games before playing in the NHL.... he was 31st pick overall in 2004

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by kehatch

With Wilson, Henry, Mikkelson, Smith, Breen, Piskula, Carson, and Negrin all looking for the 6 and 7 spots I would say he is far from a lock. In fact, unless he really improved his defensive game I don't think he makes the team.

Last year we lacked an offensive D-man with the Flames and the competition from the Heat was minimal. This season we have Babchuk on the Flames and Smith, Henry, and Wilson have been added as offensive options.

We had Babchuk last year too. And I always thought Brodie was in the style of an offensive D-man, just needed to improve his defensive game more than anything.

I will agree there is a lot of competition this year, and anything could happen, but I still think he's the front runner.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It really helps being a 1st round draft pick and being one of the top players at the WJC.

Erixon will be given a much better chance of making the Rangers than any of the Flames #7 spot competitors no matter how he performs at Camp and exhibition. He would have to be awful not to make the opening day roster.

That would be the same reason Mikkleson had less than 100 AHL games before playing in the NHL.... he was 31st pick overall in 2004

Of course there is the exception to every rule Kris Chucko, or Matt Pelech.

Don't think we can throw a blanket over the entire league by saying if you're a first rounder you will be provided a better chance than anyone else. Maybe I'm getting too old, but I still believe in everyone earning their shot of playing in the NHL regardless of draft position. If you show you are capable and ready then you have earned the right to play on the big club.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Of course there is the exception to every rule Kris Chucko, or Matt Pelech.

Don't think we can throw a blanket over the entire league by saying if you're a first rounder you will be provided a better chance than anyone else. Maybe I'm getting too old, but I still believe in everyone earning their shot of playing in the NHL regardless of draft position. If you show you are capable and ready then you have earned the right to play on the big club.

To me the reason 1st rounders make the NHL quicker is becuase they are more complete players and need less development, both on and off the ice. Their top end might not even be as high as some lower round picks, but he are a pretty reasonable bet to make the NHL. Backlund wasn't ripping the AHL up, but he didn't have many holes in his game that would make him a Liability or hinderance at the NHL level either, so he got the opportunity. Howse could end up scoring like crazy in the AHL relatively speaking, and not get a chance for a few years until his two way play and conditioning improve enough (he need to figure out how to eat healthy enough and lose some weight to have much chance of making the NHL).

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

To me the reason 1st rounders make the NHL quicker is becuase they are more complete players and need less development, both on and off the ice. Their top end might not even be as high as some lower round picks, but he are a pretty reasonable bet to make the NHL. Backlund wasn't ripping the AHL up, but he didn't have many holes in his game that would make him a Liability or hinderance at the NHL level either, so he got the opportunity. Howse could end up scoring like crazy in the AHL relatively speaking, and not get a chance for a few years until his two way play and conditioning improve enough (he need to figure out how to eat healthy enough and lose some weight to have much chance of making the NHL).

Exactly correct you make the NHL because of your around play has earned you the right to make the NHL. Chucko oh hell I don't even know enough there but I think he was to be an energy guy and to be honest I didn't notice when he was on the ice. He didn't do enough to make it. A first rounder but didn't make it. Pelech throw it in as bad luck I mean a blood clot in your leg come on felt bad for him as it hindered his development in my opinion. Then guys like Brodie get drafted in round 4 and start passing the first rounder on the depth chart. I say good on Brodie, and if he has improved his defensive game and has earned the right to play for the Flames give the kid his props cause he earned it. But until then just another prospect looking to make it in the "Bigs".

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Of course there is the exception to every rule Kris Chucko, or Matt Pelech.

Don't think we can throw a blanket over the entire league by saying if you're a first rounder you will be provided a better chance than anyone else. Maybe I'm getting too old, but I still believe in everyone earning their shot of playing in the NHL regardless of draft position. If you show you are capable and ready then you have earned the right to play on the big club.

Brayden Shenn went head to head in a playoff series and lost to Max Rienhart... Significant test over signifcant time frame with significant importance. ..... are there any illussions as to who will be given the chance to play 40 NHL games this year???


If Shenn isn't at least given a shot with the Flyers then Holgrem is a lot closer to looking for a new job.

If Backlund was a total dud with the Heat ... after the build up that he would be the leading scoring in the CHL , his great performance at the WJC , his play with in the WHL playoff with the Rockets he still was going to get a real shot with the Flames .

You don't think that Baertschi and Nemisz will be given a better or more opportunity than Howse, Reinhart, Wahl and Horak? Management has more or an investment in them and want to see them succeed so they can show how smart they are in picking them.

Even in failure you have your chances extended ----You don't think Logan Macmillan would be playing in the ECHL or some Swiss league if he wasn't a 19th pick overall?

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Brayden Shenn went head to head in a playoff series and lost to Max Rienhart... Significant test over signifcant time frame with significant importance. ..... are there any illussions as to who will be given the chance to play 40 NHL games this year???


If Shenn isn't at least given a shot with the Flyers then Holgrem is a lot closer to looking for a new job.

If Backlund was a total dud with the Heat ... after the build up that he would be the leading scoring in the CHL , his great performance at the WJC , his play with in the WHL playoff with the Rockets he still was going to get a real shot with the Flames .

You don't think that Baertschi and Nemisz will be given a better or more opportunity than Howse, Reinhart, Wahl and Horak? Management has more or an investment in them and want to see them succeed so they can show how smart they are in picking them.

Even in failure you have your chances extended ----You don't think Logan Macmillan would be playing in the ECHL or some Swiss league if he wasn't a 19th pick overall?

Eric Nystrom(edit-actually was Brandon Prust) shut down Sidney Crosby in a tournament as well. That doesn't mean they are better players, just that they had a better tournament and that one player was the other's Kryptonite.

Logan Macmillen has played 30 games in the ECHL. He'd be there still if the Heat were better but they were not. He can play a bottom 6 role in the AHL though because he has the two way ability to do so, so he's not completely useless when he isn't scoring. He won't have much chance to make the Flames though unless he at least gets to the 30 pt range in AHL next year while being a really solid 2 way guy.

Schenn will be given a shot if he looks good enough in training camp. If not, he'll probably get the mid season callup (He's AHL eligible now, right?) like Backlund as he plays a complete game. If the only thing he had going for him was his offensive abilities, he would probably have never been picked 4th overall. He's reasonably complete though, so even if he doesn't score a lot to start, he wont hurt the team like a Ryan Howse would if he isn't scoring. If Ryan Howse came to camp in good shape, demonstrated he figured out the two way game, and had the potential to score, he'd have a spot out of camp as well, but he isn't that kind of player yet.

The biggest advantage a 1st round pick has, IMO, is that they have their chances extended. Macmillen would probably never have been traded for by Darryl if he was a 5th rounder, but as he was a 1st rounder he was willing to take a chance on him, especially because he was drafted to be a two way player. The higher you are drafted, the more people know about you, and the more likely you will have a second chance.

[Vinny01]

Feaster seemed pretty adamant that roster spots were going to be based soley on performance and work eithic this season. Young players can expect to compete for a spot but certainly won't be handed one.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Brayden Shenn went head to head in a playoff series and lost to Max Rienhart... Significant test over signifcant time frame with significant importance. ..... are there any illussions as to who will be given the chance to play 40 NHL games this year???


If Shenn isn't at least given a shot with the Flyers then Holgrem is a lot closer to looking for a new job.

If Backlund was a total dud with the Heat ... after the build up that he would be the leading scoring in the CHL , his great performance at the WJC , his play with in the WHL playoff with the Rockets he still was going to get a real shot with the Flames .

You don't think that Baertschi and Nemisz will be given a better or more opportunity than Howse, Reinhart, Wahl and Horak? Management has more or an investment in them and want to see them succeed so they can show how smart they are in picking them.

Even in failure you have your chances extended ----You don't think Logan Macmillan would be playing in the ECHL or some Swiss league if he wasn't a 19th pick overall?

I know in Calgary most are hardcore hockey fans, but last I checked it was the Kootney Ice who defeated the Saskatoon Blades. Not Reinhart and the Kootney Ice who defeated the Brayden Shenn and the Sasktoon Blades.

Edit: This is not a personal shot, but rather a compliment. I think you are very much a hard core fan. You seem very passionate about both the Heat and the Flames.

I agree though he is going to get a real good look in Philidelphia, because Brayden Schenn is a pretty darn good all around player.

I don't think Baertshi, will make it this year. I think he goes back to Portland, but hey if he shows in camp that he belongs then I'm sure he stays. As for Nemisz I think Bouma beats him out. Yes a 3rd rounder beats out the first rounder. Could I be wrong absolutley, and because of this I'm not employed by the Calgary Flames. As for comparing Wahl, Howse, Reinhart, Horak to Nemisz or Baertschi and who gets the better look. I think every single person in the Flames would be delighted if every single one made it as they were all picked by the Flames staff except Horak who was traded to the Flames. But yeah if Reinhart turns out to fill a need with the Flames better than Baertshi, I bet Brent Sutter puts Reinhart on the team before Baertshi regardless of draft position. I think this year as Jay Feaster has said everyone is going to get good looks regardless of draft position.

To be honest in regards to Logan MacMillan I know nothing there you could be absolutley right maybe he should be in the ECHL but because he was the 19th pick he isn't.

All I was replying to was I don't believe we can sight certain examples that proove our point and make it a hard fast rule for the league as a whole.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Eric Nystrom shut down Sidney Crosby in a tournament as well.

I think you mean Prust.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

I think you mean Prust.

You are correct.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by flambers

Why would the Flames trade him? Makes no sense at all...

Because the Erixon trade made sense? Not all trades make sense, but the NHL is a business and trades do happen.

Why would he demand a trade, what has he shown to proove he is NHL ready... last time I checked last year was his first year as a pro....

It's been talked about lots in this thread and all reports were that he was not happy in the AHL. He did learn to not be so vocal about his displeasure.

Sounds like Brodie needed a kick in the pants to get his head straight in the AHL.

Once he accepted why he was sent down, he turned his game around and played allot better.

Sure the guy can win a role with the Flames.... I would think if he makes it, he would be the 6th dman.... For a rookie that is fine.

Brodie learnt to keep his mouth shut. I think it's a bit too early to know if he actually learnt anything. Playfair and Feaster commented on his attitude and all reports were that he had Dion Phaneuf syndrome. Thinking he was better than he actually was.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Feaster seemed pretty adamant that roster spots were going to be based soley on performance and work eithic this season. Young players can expect to compete for a spot but certainly won't be handed one.

Feaster talks a good game and I hope our prospects buy it but with his signings of 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th defencemen, I don't see any difference from the Sutter days. With every signing, Brodie's, Breen's and Negrin's chances of making the team go down. I'd also add Irving to the line of frustrated prospects although one of the forwards might make it into Hagman's spot until Morrison comes back.

This could change with injuries or if Feaster makes another deal or two but so far all he's shown is an ability to pick up more border line NHLers.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Feaster talks a good game and I hope our prospects buy it but with his signings of 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th defencemen, I don't see any difference from the Sutter days. With every signing, Brodie's, Breen's and Negrin's chances of making the team go down. I'd also add Irving to the line of frustrated prospects although one of the forwards might make it into Hagman's spot until Morrison comes back.

This could change with injuries or if Feaster makes another deal or two but so far all he's shown is an ability to pick up more border line NHLers.

The overall goal for the GM is to make the team as good as possible within the salary cap.

If you can get a better value defensemen for the same or less salary than the guys you drafted you have to go with them.

The goal is not about making your scouts look good.

Our drafted prospects got closer to the NHL when Aulie and Wilson were traded away badically as throw ins and Pelech kept getting injured and then got moved back down when Carson, Mikklesen, Smith, Wilson and Henry got signed basically for nothing.

Maybe Brodie and Negrin can develop enough so that next time a Carson or Mikklesen is on the waiver wire the Flames will look and say no thanks .... Brodie is better.