I'm in love! (picture included)

[Lanny_MacDonald]

You're right, I've never driven any car with any horsepower at all. Nope, the Mercedes SL600 has no balls at all. The 911 is in the same class. Same as the NSX. The Jag XKE was kind of a wimp too. Nothing like the "super car" Ford Mustang. The Mustang is the ONLY car in the world that has any balls. /sarcasm

First of all, I don't dislike North American cars. I actually like quite a few of the Chrysler products for looks. I don't mind the Mustang. I love the Corvette. But the fact of the matter is that North American cars fall apart a lot quicker than their Jap or Euro counters. They have no resale value because of it. For the most part, you get more than 50K miles on them and they are worthless. Not a very good product quality wise.

And did I not say North American cars are the king of straight ahead driving? They're awesome on a drag strip, but they completely SUCK when you have to turn a corner. And if you want that kick you pay for it at the pump. There's a balance, and North American products don't have balance IMO. They are crap for quality, gas guzzlers, and not driveable. For that I prefer Jap and Euro vehicles.

As for that mythical 475 hp Mustang you refer to, can I do the similar mods to my car too? A nice little supercharger and exhaust will kick the Z up to almost 470. Then we're back to driveability, and the Nissan kicks the **** out of the Ford all over again. Too bad Nissan still didn't do the twin turbo (I prefer supercharging) just to compare apples to apples and ditch the "stock" argument. Then we'd be able to compare apples to apples. Because its certain you don't want to compare them as it is.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Jake

Lanny, do you actually think a 475 HP Mustang is less responsive than a 200ish HP Mini Cooper? The Ford will pin you back in your seat. You may think the Cooper can do that, but until you take a ride in a car with over twice the power you really have no idea what your talking about.

Of course a Cooper S cannot pin you back into your seat like 475 HP, that's not what's it's designed for. But wait until you get to some corners, and the Cooper will likely leave the Mustang behind...

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Holy ****, you've been babbling on and on about a ****ing Neon!?!?!?!

Hardly... I think I've mentioned the neon once or twice.

Its still faster than your car. I guess neon drivers must have bigger penises :baby:

I argue with numbers and facts, you argue with "My car is so fast that I don't even race ricers" and "My car is so awesome because its awesome" and I've even caught hints of you thinking you can keep up with a Corvette or a mustang GT

Its a nice car Lanny, but Jesus, you aren't driving an Enzo here.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I agree with Lanny, small nimble convertible are a lot more fun to drive than heavy high hp American cars. I am looking at sadly giving up the s2000 I've had for 5 years this year, and can't imagine anything being more fun to drive.

Too bad. That's a fun little car to drive too. You gotta keep the RPMs up, but that thing will go too. And it's another handlers dream!

Getting to the age where the family makes it near impossible to keep a two seater? Don't worry, you'll get to the age where you can get another one soon enough. Its only another 20 years!

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

As for that mythical 475 hp Mustang you refer to

It's right here:


2007 Shelby gt500 by SVT.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Hardly... I think I've mentioned the neon once or twice.

Sorry, for some reason I thought you were talking about the Solstice. My bad.



If I knew you were talking about a Neon this conversation would have been done a long time ago.

Its still faster than your car. I guess neon drivers must have bigger penises :baby:

No, its obvious they have smaller one. It seems the "boys" have to save their money to get that augmentation surgery done so they can measure up with the "men" who buy real cars.

I argue with numbers and facts, you argue with "My car is so fast that I don't even race ricers" and "My car is so awesome because its awesome" and I've even caught hints of you thinking you can keep up with a Corvette or a mustang GT

Its a nice car Lanny, but Jesus, you aren't driving an Enzo here.

Who said it was anything special? There are ton of cars out there that will run circles around a Z. A lot of them that I would have bought when I was younger and much stupider. But I am very happy with the car and its performance. Will it keep up with a Corvette? No. A Mustang GT? Not a problem. As I have pointed out, there is more to driving than putting your foot to the mat and aiming the car down the road. The Z is a car that is close in exceleration, but in a completely different class when it comes to driveability. So there is no contest. Plus, I get to drive awound in the sun and get compliments on my car. I don't get laughed at as I roll up to the lights in Neon.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by arsenal

2007 Shelby gt500 by SVT.

Ah, gotcha. It doesn't exist yet, at least not to the consumer market. Well, in that case, can it keep up to this?



0-60 in under 4 seconds AND it gets close to 35 miles per gallon.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Ah, gotcha. It doesn't exist yet, at least not to the consumer market. Well, in that case, can it keep up to this?



0-60 in under 4 seconds AND it gets close to 35 miles per gallon.

probably not. Is that a new Toyota? That does look pretty nice though.
I heard somewhere that Toyota may be bringing the Supra back into production. Mind you, it could have been the voices in my head..

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Of course a Cooper S cannot pin you back into your seat like 475 HP, that's not what's it's designed for. But wait until you get to some corners, and the Cooper will likely leave the Mustang behind...

You are kidding me right?

Mustang GT:
Skidpad: 0.84 g
Slalom: 66mph
0-60: 5.1
1/4 mile: 13.6

Cooper S:
Skidpad: 0.85g
Slalom: 67mph
0-60: 6.8
1/4 mile:

Cobalt SS/SC:
Skidpad: 0.88g
Slalom: 67mph
0-60: 6.1
1/4 mile: 14.4

Neon SRT4:
Skidpad: 0.88g
Slalom: 66mph
0-60: 5.8
1/4 mile: 14.2

350 Z roadster:
skidpad: 0.87
Slalom: 66mph
0-60: 5.8
1/4 mile: 14.3


All of these cars will beat a Mini around a track. You'll notice that 2 of them offer similar performance to the 350Z for about half the price.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by arsenal

probably not. Is that a new Toyota? That does look pretty nice though.
I heard somewhere that Toyota may be bringing the Supra back into production. Mind you, it could have been the voices in my head..

That's the Toyota Volta. Its a three seat hybrid. Prototype only at this point. Lots of pressure on Toyota to produce it, but Toyota seldom bends to the whims of the carshow set. Would be sweet though. I would think it would be ridiculously expensive too. Ah, to dream.

[Jake]

Do you have a picture of that Toyota that is not a drawing? Its hard to judge a cars looks based on a real picture, let alone a drawing. As of now I do not like it.

I'm not sure if you were trying to compare that to the Mustang since they both currently do not exist, but that is ridiculous if you are. Can the Nizzan Z keep up with the Ford GT40? Of course the answer is no. There is a 100 grand price difference.

The difference between the GT500 and that wanna be Bugatti is that the Ford is a working prototype that has been tested. See this months Road and Track magizine.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

[Posted some stats]

All of these cars will beat a Mini around a track. You'll notice that 2 of them offer similar performance to the 350Z for about half the price.

You base this on some 0-60, 1/4 mile and slalom times? Hardly a measure of "track performance". I've been told of an instance where a Cooper S Works chased down and passed a Ferrari 348 on a track. I've seen Cooper S Works beat Porsches on the track. A Cooper S Works also won the Ralley Targa Newfoundland in the open class this year, beating all comers.

As well, Road & Track have said that the handling of a Cooper S beats most BMWs, Ferrari's and Porsches. I would be hard pressed to put the Mustang in that class. And I've owned one...

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

You base this on some 0-60, 1/4 mile and slalom times? Hardly a measure of "track performance". I've been told of an instance where a Cooper S Works chased down and passed a Ferrari 348 on a track. I've seen Cooper S Works beat Porsches on the track. A Cooper S Works also won the Ralley Targa Newfoundland in the open class this year, beating all comers.

As well, Road & Track have said that the handling of a Cooper S beats most BMWs, Ferrari's and Porsches. I would be hard pressed to put the Mustang in that class. And I've owned one...

When talking Cooper S Works, things change. That is an amazing example of FWD handling, the best I can think of. Slalom and skidpad numbers are the measures of handling, how can you argue them? 95% of the time a car with a faster 0-60, faster 1/4 mile, better skidpad and better slalom will win a race around a track.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Jake

Do you have a picture of that Toyota that is not a drawing? Its hard to judge a cars looks based on a real picture, let alone a drawing. As of now I do not like it.

I'm not sure if you were trying to compare that to the Mustang since they both currently do not exist, but that is ridiculous if you are. Can the Nizzan Z keep up with the Ford GT40? Of course the answer is no. There is a 100 grand price difference.

The difference between the GT500 and that wanna be Bugatti is that the Ford is a working prototype that has been tested. See this months Road and Track magizine.

The Volta is a working vehicle. Its a hybrud, got 430 HP and is AWD. It was proof of concept and what a wonderful concept it is. The thing is supposed to be one the best handling vehicles made. A true exotic that will get over 30 mpg.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

You're right, I've never driven any car with any horsepower at all. Nope, the Mercedes SL600 has no balls at all. The 911 is in the same class. Same as the NSX. The Jag XKE was kind of a wimp too. Nothing like the "super car" Ford Mustang. The Mustang is the ONLY car in the world that has any balls. /sarcasm

I missed this post earlier. Your car knowledge shines through again. An NSX is far from powerful. A Mustang GT is faster than an NSX (straight line... yes I know the NSX would hand a mustang its ass on a track).

For the record, I don't like the new mustang. I think I'm one of the few people out there that doesn't. The styling is a turn off, and I'd rather a small turbo or supercharged car (which is why I got a car with a 2.0L supercharged engine). I don't like paying for gas enough to drive a V8. Plus the most appealing aspect of vehicles for me is the handling, not the straight line performance. I'm not even an American car fan, although I drive one because my requirements for this car was cheap performance. You pay for performance when you go Japanese/European. Yes I know my car will fall apart faster, thats why it was cheaper. The only American car I would consider buying in the future would be a vette, or maybe a 300C. All of the others on my wishlist are Jap/Euro. People need to wake up to the fact that just because their car was expensive doesn't mean its an amazing performer.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

The Volta is a working vehicle. Its a hybrud, got 430 HP and is AWD. It was proof of concept and what a wonderful concept it is. The thing is supposed to be one the best handling vehicles made. A true exotic that will get over 30 mpg.

How heavy is it? I'm guessing it will be pretty bloated due to all the batteries. The instant torque would make for some fun driving though.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

When talking Cooper S Works, things change. That is an amazing example of FWD handling, the best I can think of. Slalom and skidpad numbers are the measures of handling, how can you argue them? 95% of the time a car with a faster 0-60, faster 1/4 mile, better skidpad and better slalom will win a race around a track.

Really? Where's the massive difference? A new header, exhaust system and rechipping makes it a completely different vehicle? The extra horsepower is nice, but the difference in driveability of the vehicle is close to nil. I know, I've driven it and have owned the other two Mini's.

How about the following cars. Compared to the ones you've posted they should be in the same class as the mighty Mustang.

Mustang GT:

Displacement: 4.6L
HP: 300
Torque: 320
0-60: 5.1
1/4 mile: 13.6


Vehicle A

Displacement: 3.0L
HP: 262
Torque: 210
0-60: 4.8
1/4 mile: 13.4

Vehicle B

Displacement: 3.6L
HP: 315
Torque: 210
0-60: 4.8
1/4 mile: 13.4

So based on the "numbers" the Mustang is right at home with these two cars and is every bit the car each of these vehicles are. I guess there must be some pretty disappointed owners out there of vehicle A (Acura NSX) and vehicle B (Porsche 911 Carrera). To think, a Ford Mustang can supposedly run with those bad boys, or so the story goes. Good thing for these owners the numbers generated on the test bench matter almost as much as Edmonton Oiler scoring statistics. Both of those vehilces run circles around the Mustang, a car that feature similar and better "numbers" than the two exotics.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

How heavy is it? I'm guessing it will be pretty bloated due to all the batteries. The instant torque would make for some fun driving though.

I'm not sure. Those specs were (naturally) under lock and key. Pretty freakin' cool vehicle. When you think hybrids you think of completely uncool vehicles like the Prius. I would give a vital organ for that Toyota!

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I missed this post earlier. Your car knowledge shines through again. An NSX is far from powerful. A Mustang GT is faster than an NSX (straight line... yes I know the NSX would hand a mustang its ass on a track).

Have you ever driven an NSX? They are damn quick cars and surprisingly powerful. That was actually the car that made me forget all about the horsepower and torque numbers that people like to throw around. The NSX is one of the most amazing vehicles I have ever driven. The performance Honda got out of that little horsepower and torque is unbelievable. Same with the BMW M3. 333 hp and the things performs like its got 450. Its crazy what good engineering can do to maximze the power generated. North American cars generate a ton of power, but waste a lot of it trying to get the car moving. Those limited slip differentials and computer control systems that some manufactures put in their cars (like the one in my Z, the Mini Cooper S, all BMW's, etc.) sure make a huge difference in how much power is wasted. Don't let ungodly power stats fool you. How the power is used means more than anything these days. Someone who drives a Neon SRT should understand that.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Have you ever driven an NSX? They are damn quick cars and surprisingly powerful. That was actually the car that made me forget all about the horsepower and torque numbers that people like to throw around. The NSX is one of the most amazing vehicles I have ever driven. The performance Honda got out of that little horsepower and torque is unbelievable. Same with the BMW M3. 333 hp and the things performs like its got 450. Its crazy what good engineering can do to maximze the power generated. North American cars generate a ton of power, but waste a lot of it trying to get the car moving. Those limited slip differentials and computer control systems that some manufactures put in their cars (like the one in my Z, the Mini Cooper S, all BMW's, etc.) sure make a huge difference in how much power is wasted. Don't let ungodly power stats fool you. How the power is used means more than anything these days. Someone who drives a Neon SRT should understand that.

I don't drive a Neon SRT-4

Straight line, the earlier NSX's can be beat by SRT-4's though. The later ones got a bit quicker. It doesn't really matter though, as they were built to be perfectly balanced track cars, not drag cars.

As for the cooper works, I thought it came with a suspension upgrade too? I guess I'm out to lunch on that one.

Another interesting alternative sports car, the Venture Fetish. 100% electric power, 0-60 in 4.3