Freeway's Pre-Draft Flames Prospect Scouting Report Thread

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Agreed.

2007 draft is a good example. Trade down to select Backlund (believe most of us agree was a good 1st round pick) and pick up a 3rd for trading down 5 slots.

Yeah we got backlund but did the 3rd do us any good? Negrin quite possibly won't make the nhl and if he does its going to have taken him 5/6 years to do so. He's just another statistic to the 2nd rounders that likely never make it to the NHL. I guess its worth the risk if you know you can get the guy but next time we might end up losing our guy due to trading down and then bust on our pick gained in the 2nd round.

Its a lot different when you're talking about trading down from 19-24 as opposed to 13-19 or 20 as some are suggesting we do this year. The flames are still in a position of drafting high end talent. The last 10 - 12 picks is an entirely different ball game then selecting in the top 15. Its not worth gaining a potential ramholt or negrin to potentially lose out on a shiefle/mcneil or whoever may be our target player.

[JiriHrdina]

Perhaps the problem in those cases though wasn't the strategy of trading down, but rather the specific choices they made at those new spots.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Perhaps the problem in those cases though wasn't the strategy of trading down, but rather the specific choices they made at those new spots.

There is also the risk that you trade down "knowing" your guy will be available, but someone like Lucky Lou moves up and steals him from under your nose. I can't remember this far back, but did we not miss out on Zajac because we traded down?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

There is also the risk that you trade down "knowing" your guy will be available, but someone like Lucky Lou moves up and steals him from under your nose. I can't remember this far back, but did we not miss out on Zajac because we traded down?

Seems that way, or the Flames had Zajac lower on their list (which would be even more damning).

Teams have success and other teams completely miss moving up and down - it ultimately comes down to picking the right kid.

Given the Flames lack of assets, moving down isn't a bad idea. But that still means they have to make a good choice at that spot.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Seems that way, or the Flames had Zajac lower on their list (which would be even more damning).

Teams have success and other teams completely miss moving up and down - it ultimately comes down to picking the right kid.

Given the Flames lack of assets, moving down isn't a bad idea. But that still means they have to make a good choice at that spot.

Again, at my age my memory is wonky, but I vaguely remember stories about how the Flames wanted Zajac, but were still very happy to get his power forward line-mate. Maybe I am imagining this.
Obviously, it really doesn't matter what you do, as long as you make the right choice. Had we traded down in 2003, and drafted Richards and Weber (with the extra pick), that would have been brilliant. As it turned out, staying in 9th and drafting Weber (or any of a bunch of players) would have been brilliant too. If your #1 choice (aside from guys you KNOW will be gone) is somebody off the board like Derek Morris, why not trade down, and pick up a few lottery tickets in the process? We've done a poor job (for the most part) with these picks, but that doesn't mean the idea itself is bad...

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Again, at my age my memory is wonky, but I vaguely remember stories about how the Flames wanted Zajac, but were still very happy to get his power forward line-mate. Maybe I am imagining this.
Obviously, it really doesn't matter what you do, as long as you make the right choice. Had we traded down in 2003, and drafted Richards and Weber (with the extra pick), that would have been brilliant. As it turned out, staying in 9th and drafting Weber (or any of a bunch of players) would have been brilliant too. If your #1 choice (aside from guys you KNOW will be gone) is somebody off the board like Derek Morris, why not trade down, and pick up a few lottery tickets in the process? We've done a poor job (for the most part) with these picks, but that doesn't mean the idea itself is bad...

Although a few years after that draft, it looked like we held the consensus best player...only for a short time though. Sigh, Phaneuf was such a beast for the first couple of years here. Then he got more "shutdown" minutes and just tanked. Oh that draft...what could have been. Picking Getzlaf would've been nice.

[CofR]

Not sure where to put this, so I'll post it here. Highlights of Kerr's interview with Ryan Howse:

- Enjoys watching the playoffs, is disappointed the Flames didn't make it, but watching the NHL playoffs means a lot to him now as a drafted player.
- Is disappointed to see the Bruins move to Victoria, says the fans in Chilliwak are awesome, and will still be looking forward to being in the area next year with the Heat. The rumours began flying about halfway through the season, but didn't allow it to affect their on ice play.
- Says Horak is a good hockey player, has improved immensly in the two years they have played together, is a very smooth skater, has great vision, Helped Howse a lot with his scoring. Good pk player, and is very excited to be with the Flames.
- Horak is very muscular, and very athletic, and does not seem to get run over, or hit very often.
- Says Horak is very mature, and has a great personality. Believes he will fit in very well with the Flames organization.

- Howse says that he grew a lot this season, and had a lot of help from his coaches. Lots of support from the team on the ice and off the ice.
- Says his overall game "absolutely" grew, and worked a lot on his defensive positioning, and killed penalties.
- Says he was banged up at the end of the playoffs.

- Says he uses his twitter account to answer questions from fans and is a pretty approachable guy.

Sorry everybody, I had to take a call in the middle and missed a whole bunch of stuff... But hopefully it will be up in the audio on demand section shortly.

[Freeway]

Incidentally, likely development camp invitees (folks on entry-level deals AND college/junior players):

Entry-Level Players:
G Joni Ortio
D John Negrin
D T.J. Brodie
D Keith Seabrook
D Chris Breen
F Mikael Backlund
F Logan MacMillan
F Greg Nemisz
F Lance Bouma
F Bryan Cameron
F Mitch Wahl
F Ryan Howse
F Roman Horak
F Gaelan Patterson
F Ryley Grantham

Junior Players:
D Joey Leach
F Max Reinhart
F Michael Ferland
F Patrick Holland

College Players:
D John Ramage
F Bill Arnold

Observation: Man, the Flames need to draft a goalie.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Incidentally, likely development camp invitees (folks on entry-level deals AND college/junior players):

Entry-Level Players:
G Joni Ortio
D John Negrin
D T.J. Brodie
D Keith Seabrook
D Chris Breen
F Mikael Backlund
F Logan MacMillan
F Greg Nemisz
F Lance Bouma
F Bryan Cameron
F Mitch Wahl
F Ryan Howse
F Roman Horak
F Gaelan Patterson
F Ryley Grantham

Junior Players:
D Joey Leach
F Max Reinhart
F Michael Ferland
F Patrick Holland

College Players:
D John Ramage
F Bill Arnold

Observation: Man, the Flames need to draft a goalie.

Roy/Pasquale were available in 2009 after Bjorklund, either would look good in our system.

[Ring of Fire]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Incidentally, likely development camp invitees (folks on entry-level deals AND college/junior players):

Entry-Level Players:
G Joni Ortio
D John Negrin
D T.J. Brodie
D Keith Seabrook
D Chris Breen
F Mikael Backlund
F Logan MacMillan
F Greg Nemisz
F Lance Bouma
F Bryan Cameron
F Mitch Wahl
F Ryan Howse
F Roman Horak
F Gaelan Patterson
F Ryley Grantham

Junior Players:
D Joey Leach
F Max Reinhart
F Michael Ferland
F Patrick Holland

College Players:
D John Ramage
F Bill Arnold

Observation: Man, the Flames need to draft a goalie.

This list looks a lot weaker with the loss of Erixon. Hopefully the 2011 draft can improve the situation.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Ring of Fire

This list looks a lot weaker with the loss of Erixon. Hopefully the 2011 draft can improve the situation.

It's not a great list, but also not horrible. Big question mark is how well Howse and Horak get acclimated to Abbotsford. Bouma and/or Nemisz are likely headed to the big club (pending many X factors), so their leadership/grit/scoring will be missed. Plenty of chances for the Carter Banckses of the world to get a NHL contract as a result.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Freeway

It's not a great list, but also not horrible. Big question mark is how well Howse and Horak get acclimated to Abbotsford. Bouma and/or Nemisz are likely headed to the big club (pending many X factors), so their leadership/grit/scoring will be missed. Plenty of chances for the Carter Banckses of the world to get a NHL contract as a result.

I'm fine with us nabbing a goalie but it better be a late round pick as opposed to a first or second round pick. Right now we have high end goalie prospects anyway (ortio/irving) so we don't really need another guy to be ready for a while. Top end forwards should be the focus early on.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Freeway

It's not a great list, but also not horrible.

Big question mark is how well Howse and Horak get acclimated to Abbotsford.

Bouma and/or Nemisz are likely headed to the big club (pending many X factors), so their leadership/grit/scoring will be missed.

.

Would think that list put the Flames at or very near the bottom of the league in terms of prospects.

Hopefully some "talent" and "skill" can be found in this years draft.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

There is also the risk that you trade down "knowing" your guy will be available, but someone like Lucky Lou moves up and steals him from under your nose. I can't remember this far back, but did we not miss out on Zajac because we traded down?

Just looked it up, but apparently we traded the 19th overall (which turned out to be Lauri Korpikoski) and the 247th (Jonathan Paiment) to the NYR for #24 (Chucko) and #46 (Adam Pineault) which we traded to Col. for #70 (Brandon Prust) and #98 (Dustin Boyd).

So we ended up with 24, 70 and 98 for the 19th and 247th. Looks good..., but for the Devils trading #22 (Lukas Kaspar) and #88 (Clayton Barthel) to Dallas for the #20, with which they picked Zajac.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Just looked it up, but apparently we traded the 19th overall (which turned out to be Lauri Korpikoski) and the 247th (Jonathan Paiment) to the NYR for #24 (Chucko) and #46 (Adam Pineault) which we traded to Col. for #70 (Brandon Prust) and #98 (Dustin Boyd).

So we ended up with 24, 70 and 98 for the 19th and 247th. Looks good..., but for the Devils trading #22 (Lukas Kaspar) and #88 (Clayton Barthel) to Dallas for the #20, with which they picked Zajac.

Right - thanks. I thought that's how it went down, but couldn't be sure.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Just looked it up, but apparently we traded the 19th overall (which turned out to be Lauri Korpikoski) and the 247th (Jonathan Paiment) to the NYR for #24 (Chucko) and #46 (Adam Pineault) which we traded to Col. for #70 (Brandon Prust) and #98 (Dustin Boyd).

So we ended up with 24, 70 and 98 for the 19th and 247th. Looks good..., but for the Devils trading #22 (Lukas Kaspar) and #88 (Clayton Barthel) to Dallas for the #20, with which they picked Zajac.

It was speculated by many that we were actually targeting Zajac and ended up taking his teamate (Chucko) as a consolation prize. I don't know if it is true... I hope not, because that sucks.