[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[Lunatik]

Originally Posted by moon

They are also the same scouts that resulted in 90% of late round picks not making it. Hornqvist is a nice story but he is the exception and not the rule. Scouts much, much more often get it right when it comes to late round guys.

Horak was a 5th round pick for a reason and there is nothing to indicate that he will even be a mediocre AHLer so saying he may be a good AHLer is pretty good for him.

I'm not saying he will become an NHLer I'm saying its too quick to say he is going to only be a good NHLer

[Textcritic]

I could be wrong, but I understood Duhatschek's comments to be far more general with what we can expect, or how we can gauge Horak's development. He was making the point that Horak's skill set is currently not extraordinary, and that he appears very much like a future average AHL player. But this was then qualified with the observation that what separates NHL regulars from this type of player is how well they adjust to the speed and grind at the NHL level, and that there is nothing in Horak's game at present to suggest that he will be able to make this huge transition. That is not to say that it cannot happen, only that it is not likely to happen. We can and should all hope that Horak surprises all of us, and if he does manage to make that adjustment, then he will be a very nice NHL player. The vast majority of players with Horak's skill-set do not make the transition, but those who do can potentially become effective top-nine or even top-six players. The cards are stacked against him, but Horak ultimately controls his own destiny here.

...At least, that is how I interpreted Duhatschek's comments.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Eloquence

...At least, that is how I interpreted Duhatschek's comments.

I think that is pretty much the same thing - you just said it much more expressively. I basically summed up the gist of it. Obviously, every player can surprise. Heck, Pelech can still turn into Regehr if he makes appropriate sacrifices to Lucifer...

[sworkhard]

I think Textcritic has it right. I believe the Flames think that he will eventually make the NHL because he has the drive necessary to continually improve his game and competes hard every shift. His current skillset isn't good enough to be anymore than a good AHL player, but i he can adjust the the size of the AHL and develop into a scorer at that level, he can likely develop into a NHL player simply because he gives it his all every shift and has good vision (according to Howse) indicating he processes the game quickly. Consistent effort and quick thinking are two critical things many AHL vets (Jamie Lundmark for example) simply arent't able to do consistently.

[TopChed]

I heard a Fan960 interview with a Rangers reporter right after this deal was announced. He actually seemed surprised that Horak was dealt, and said that despite being a 5th rounder, he was one of the more impressive players at camp for them last year.

I don't know a whole lot about him, but at least he's excited to be part of the team. I look forward to seeing him continue to play alongside Howse, and hopefully he surprises a few people.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FAN

Well that's almost like the old rule where you can draft an European and keep their rights for an eternity. I'm not sure the reasons behind the change but they did change it so I doubt they go back to the old rule.

Actually you wouldn't keep their rights forever like the old system. In my proposal they would be UFA's at UFA age which is 26. So either the prospect can sign, be traded, or he can play in Europe until he reaches UFA age at which time he can sign wherever.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Lunatik

I'm not saying he will become an NHLer I'm saying its too quick to say he is going to only be a good NHLer

It is all about potential and possibilities.


Erixon is one of only 14 guys selected in the 2009 first round that has not played in the NHL. The 16 that have are considered to be their teams top young players/prospects.

If the 2009 draft would be done over again Erixon would not move up much from the 23rd spot he was selected.

There are 8 guys selected in the second round 2009 that have NHL games. O'Rielly and Clifford are solid NHLers.

In the 3rd round only one has a NHL game, the 4th round none and the 5th round has 3 guys with NHL games.

--------------------------

Horak would be drafted higher than 127 (6th in the 5th round). He got drafted based on 8 games in a Czech men's league and went to Chilliwak and scored 47 goals and 125 pts

He has greatly impoved his chances of making the NHL

He has been statistically as good as 29th overall pick 2009 Carter Ashton 57 goal 112 pts and 13th overall pick Zach Kassan - 38 goals - 108 pts

Richard Panik got drafted 2nd round 52nd overall out of Slovaki and came over to play in the OHL 48 goals 97 pts.

He has out performed 2009 2nd round 32nd overall Landon Ferraro - 26 goals 73 pts

No certainty that Horak will make the NHL but he has moved up in the class of 2009 to be comfortably comparable to the 2nd rounders taken.

Flames 2009 3rd rounder Ryan Howse has moved up as well ---- 98 goals and 155 pts.

[Vulcan]

The way I look at this deal is that Horak was included to fob off to us fans that we actually got something of value. Hey maybe he'll surprise and I'll gladly eat my words but at this stage I'll defer to Duhatschek's opinion that he'll be a decent AHLer.

[Phanuthier]

Remember Duha is a reporter, and not a scout. Albeit, a very good reporter and very well connected reporter that knows alot about the NHL. But not an NHL scout. I'm not expecting Horak to be a NHL player, but I'm not deterred by what Duha says either. I'm sort of in wait and see mode.

[Tinordi]

I'm waiting and seeing but it's clear is this a terrible trade for the Flames. Not that it was anyone's fault but this is a huge organizational step back.

[fredr123]

A bit off topic, but I can't look at this thread title and not think of this:

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Remember Duha is a reporter, and not a scout. Albeit, a very good reporter and very well connected reporter that knows alot about the NHL. But not an NHL scout. I'm not expecting Horak to be a NHL player, but I'm not deterred by what Duha says either. I'm sort of in wait and see mode.

What Phanuthier said!

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

What Phanuthier said!

IIRC Duhahatsek was summarizing what he had heard from other hockey people - not stating his own opinion.

[trew]

Here's a question for those of you more familliar with the draft rules than myself:

Could Erixon have chosen to not opt in for the 2011 draft and then become a free agent in 2012, (when he turns 21)?

If so, perhaps this was their plan all along, if we didn't trade him to the Rangers.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by trew

Here's a question for those of you more familliar with the draft rules than myself:

Could Erixon have chosen to not opt in for the 2011 draft and then become a free agent in 2012, (when he turns 21)?

If so, perhaps this was their plan all along, if we didn't trade him to the Rangers.

No, he would have had to be in the 2011 draft. BUT he could have chosen not to sign with the team that drafted him again, and then he would have been a UFA in another 2 years. I believe that is correct, but I welcome correction if not.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by trew

Here's a question for those of you more familliar with the draft rules than myself:

Could Erixon have chosen to not opt in for the 2011 draft and then become a free agent in 2012, (when he turns 21)?

If so, perhaps this was their plan all along, if we didn't trade him to the Rangers.

My guess is the kid wanted to go to the rangers, after that I don't think he cared, in fact if there was no chance to go to the Rangers I expect he would have signed with the Flames.

The system gave him a shot at getting to the Rangers and so he rolled the dice, no doubt after a very carefully worded conversation between the Rangers and Dad where Sather, or more likely, a sacrificial minion in scouting, let dad know hypothetically they might be interested in a promising young defenseman who didn't sign with their drafting team and would possibly commit to a couple of 2nd round picks.

The problem for the Flames is they are not a team that a rookie would feel compelled to sign with any more, they arn't competing for a cup any time soon or going with a youth movement that would ensure a kid got alot of playing time, they are now an average team so from Erixsons point of view it didn't really matter if he didn't get to New York but then ended up in Minnisota or Nashville.

[trew]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

No, he would have had to be in the 2011 draft. BUT he could have chosen not to sign with the team that drafted him again, and then he would have been a UFA in another 2 years. I believe that is correct, but I welcome correction if not.

Just found this webpage from the NHL:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377

Entry Draft Eligibility
All players age 19 or older [(i) any player who will be age 18 on or before September 15 in the year in which such Entry Draft is held, or (ii) reaches his 19th birthday between September 16 and December 31, both dates included, next following Entry Draft, can attain eligibility by delivering to the League a written notice (Opt in Form) prior to the later of May 1, or seven days following the date such player finishes competing on his team in the year in which such draft is to be held.] are eligible for claim in the Entry Draft, except:
(i) A Player on the Reserve List of a Club, other than as a try-out;
(ii) A player who has been claimed in two prior Entry Drafts;
(iii) A player who previously played in the League and became a free agent pursuant to the Collective Bargaining Agreement;
(iv) A plyer age 21 or older who had played hockey for at least one season in North America when he was age 18, 19 or 20

If I read this correctly, Erixon would have the option to not sign an opt in form for the 2011 draft.

Then, provided he plays one season of hockey in a North American league, he would be a free agent for the 2012/13 season, as he would no longer be elligible for the draft (via clause iv).

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by trew

Just found this webpage from the NHL:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377



If I read this correctly, Erixon would have the option to not sign an opt in form for the 2011 draft.

Then, provided he plays one season of hockey in a North American league, he would be a free agent for the 2012/13 season, as he would no longer be elligible for the draft (via clause iv).

I'm far too lazy to bother reading NHL rules, but I don't think he has any choice in the matter. He is/was eligible for the 2011 draft, so any team could have drafted him, and he would have been their "property" for 2 years.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by trew

Just found this webpage from the NHL:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377



If I read this correctly, Erixon would have the option to not sign an opt in form for the 2011 draft.

Then, provided he plays one season of hockey in a North American league, he would be a free agent for the 2012/13 season, as he would no longer be elligible for the draft (via clause iv).

Nope, it's in the first sentence there. All players 19 or older are eligible and do not have to opt in.

[trew]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nope, it's in the first sentence there. All players 19 or older are eligible and do not have to opt in.

Ah. I didn't properly parse the square brackets out of that first sentence. The opt in is only for certain situations.