[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The only reason he got in the lineup at all was because of injuries. He wasn't even close to being an NHL quality dman at that point.

He wasn't buried because of a bad shift, he was buried because he sucked.

You are lecturing Flames fans on a prospect that is clear you actually don't have the background and context on. I'm not saying that your overall criticisms towards the organization don't have merit - but the Ramholt example is a poor one.

Fair enough - it wasn't an insult but if someone isn't ready and he gets a 45 second shift, messes up and doesn't see the ice again - it does look bad on the team, put him out there for a couple shifts to end the third when the team is down by three goals.

I just looked at the gamelog and Keenan pulled Kiprusoff with 4 minutes to play? I remember him doing that with the Canucks and it upset me to no end.

[wingmaker]

A couple of thoughts I had:

1. There is a slight irony in all of this. Sutter took a lot of heat for drafting a lot of western canadian players. One of his reasons he drafted that way was because he knew those players would play for Calgary and would likely choose to continue to play in Calgary. In the end, the first time Sutter really gets bitten drafting a European because they didn't want to play in Alberta he is not the GM that takes the heat.

2. Everyone pointing to Calgary's record of developing youth as a reason for Erixon not signing, there is one small flaw—the Flames were a better bet for Erixon to be in the NHL this year than the Rangers. Erixon was as good as guaranteed of being an NHLer this year in Calgary (Feaster said as much in his interview) while in New York he will be behind other players and in competition with several others. Going to New York in no way guaranteed him a place in the NHL this year. Other than in perception, New York isn't even a team that is much more successful than Calgary. Sure, they made the playoffs as the 8 seed, but in the grand scheme of things, they have been about equal to the Flames the last couple of years. They are younger, so perhaps they have a bit brighter future, but there is no guarantee they will be substantially better next year.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The only reason he got in the lineup at all was because of injuries. He wasn't even close to being an NHL quality dman at that point.

He wasn't buried because of a bad shift, he was buried because he sucked.

You are lecturing Flames fans on a prospect that is clear you actually don't have the background and context on. I'm not saying that your overall criticisms towards the organization don't have merit - but the Ramholt example is a poor one.

and even if it's all true it would be bizarre that Erixon is holding the current Flames management to account for a decision made by Mike Keenan on a Darryl Sutter managed team (to a Craig Button drafted player)....all since fired

the Flames have done lots poorly in the last few years, but it still seems fishy (if not highly unusual ) for a prospect not to sign with a club based on the actions of a previous regime

it just seems much more likely that Erixon's motivations were otherwise (although sure if the Flames were an elite club firing on all cylinders he might have had different thoughts)

[Bill Bumface]

A couple days, page 45, some time to cool off, I still hope he sucks.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I thought I offered a balance. The player loses one year eligibility to the draft. This would at least encourage him to give decent notice to his prospective team which would have gave them more time to work out a trade. What Erixon did was string Calgary along which in turn limited what they got for him.

I don't think players should be treated like serfs but, the NHL would be much poorer if they let prospects dictate which teams they play on.

i dont think this prospect dictated where he wanted to play either, CGY could have let him re enter the draft but it was in their best interests to trade him to NYR so they did.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Because it can really fubar a team and if others follow Erixon's lead very quickly you would have an unfair playing field. A high end player will make more money in endorsements in New York or Toronto than they will make in Edmonton or Winnipeg.

I think a player who doesn't sign should at least lose a year of eligibility to be drafted.

The only way to make that fair would be to also have teams be forced to give ELCs to all drafted players.

There is another side to the coin too. Deliert, Bjorklund and Bennett were all drafted by the Flames and unable to negotiate with other NHL teams for 2 years, and they have nothing to show for it. It's a crappy business sometimes.

[GreenLantern2814]

It's been two days since the trade, and I can't say I hate that we got at least some value back...

I can say I hope Timmy Erixon tears both his ACLs and suffers a career-ending concussion on the same play of his first NHL shift, and I hope Horak and Howse become the next Selanne/Kariya.

And if we could use our 2nd rounders to select the next Subban and Lucic, that'd be aces as well.

F U Tim Erixon, may your pants get caught in an escalator. During the ensuing bloodbath, I hope you remember that karma is a MASSIVE bitch.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's been two days since the trade, and I can't say I hate that we got at least some value back...

I can say I hope Timmy Erixon tears both his ACLs and suffers a career-ending concussion on the same play of his first NHL shift, and I hope Horak and Howse become the next Selanne/Kariya.

And if we could use our 2nd rounders to select the next Subban and Lucic, that'd be aces as well.

F U Tim Erixon, may your pants get caught in an escalator. During the ensuing bloodbath, I hope you remember that karma is a MASSIVE bitch.

Sooo, um, what do you think the Karma ramifications are for 3 paragraphs hoping a players is injured so badly that his career is over....

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

Sooo, um, what do you think the Karma ramifications are for 3 paragraphs hoping a players is injured so badly that his career is over....

Nothing whatsoever. I didn't tear his ACLs or concuss him.

[afc wimbledon]

So you sign a years lease on a meh! apartment in a crappy part of town, then your buddy finds a great house with a weight room and a pool next to a sorority house for half the rent and yet all of you will obviously honour the lease judging by this thread eh?

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

So you sign a years lease on a meh! apartment in a crappy part of town, then your buddy finds a great house with a weight room and a pool next to a sorority house for half the rent and yet all of you will obviously honour the lease judging by this thread eh?

Not a good comparison, imo.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Not a good comparison, imo.

why? the kid wanted out and found a way, I ain't saying I approve, but in the immortal words of Chris Rock, I understand.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

why? the kid wanted out and found a way, I ain't saying I approve, but in the immortal words of Chris Rock, I understand.

Its not a good comparison because the vast majority of prospects sign with the team theyre drafted by if the team shows interest.

99.9 percent of people would take the new location in the situation you presented.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Its not a good comparison because the vass majority of prospects sign with the team theyre drafted by if the team shows interest.

99.9 percent of people would take the new location in the situation you presented.

So as long as enough people do it its ok? not what was thrashed into me but I suppose its some kind of arguement.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

A couple of thoughts I had:

1. There is a slight irony in all of this. Sutter took a lot of heat for drafting a lot of western canadian players. One of his reasons he drafted that way was because he knew those players would play for Calgary and would likely choose to continue to play in Calgary. In the end, the first time Sutter really gets bitten drafting a European because they didn't want to play in Alberta he is not the GM that takes the heat.

2. Everyone pointing to Calgary's record of developing youth as a reason for Erixon not signing, there is one small flaw—the Flames were a better bet for Erixon to be in the NHL this year than the Rangers. Erixon was as good as guaranteed of being an NHLer this year in Calgary (Feaster said as much in his interview) while in New York he will be behind other players and in competition with several others. Going to New York in no way guaranteed him a place in the NHL this year. Other than in perception, New York isn't even a team that is much more successful than Calgary. Sure, they made the playoffs as the 8 seed, but in the grand scheme of things, they have been about equal to the Flames the last couple of years. They are younger, so perhaps they have a bit brighter future, but there is no guarantee they will be substantially better next year.

A couple of responses.

1) Sutter made a mistake by not drafting a true Swede. We see that an American-born Swede just isn't as loyal as a Swedish born one.

2) I'm not so sure that is true. If you're looking at Dmen who are signed through next year, the Rangers have a much easier blueline to crack than ours. Erixon likely will get PP time with the Rangers as well. But more importantly, the Rangers have a slew of Dmen who got NHL time without much in the way of AHL time. If you're in Erixon's situation, you would take the NYR situation over here.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

So as long as enough people do it its ok? not what was thrashed into me but I suppose its some kind of arguement.

No, but the comparing the two as you did is not a good example.

Totally different things.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by looooob

and even if it's all true it would be bizarre that Erixon is holding the current Flames management to account for a decision made by Mike Keenan on a Darryl Sutter managed team (to a Craig Button drafted player)....all since fired

It was just an example of a club that has for the past 6 years had a very poor track record with young players. I think that Erixon just wanted to play for the same team as his dad and that was likely his favourite team as a child and handled the situation poorly at best. But at the same time the Flames need to give young players a reason to want to play for the organization - something in this case at least it appears that they didn't do. I hope that the Flames make something out of the two second round picks and use them to trade up in the draft and select an impact player for the future and don't squander them. This is a weird trade in which the Flames lose and win the trade at the same time.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by FAN

A couple of responses.

1) Sutter made a mistake by not drafting a true Swede. We see that an American-born Swede just isn't as loyal as a Swedish born one.

2) I'm not so sure that is true. If you're looking at Dmen who are signed through next year, the Rangers have a much easier blueline to crack than ours. Erixon likely will get PP time with the Rangers as well. But more importantly, the Rangers have a slew of Dmen who got NHL time without much in the way of AHL time. If you're in Erixon's situation, you would take the NYR situation over here.

The Rangers didnt have a problem sending down Del Zotto this year. So Erixon could be in the same boat depending on his performance.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FAN

A couple of responses.

1) Sutter made a mistake by not drafting a true Swede. We see that an American-born Swede just isn't as loyal as a Swedish born one.

2) I'm not so sure that is true. If you're looking at Dmen who are signed through next year, the Rangers have a much easier blueline to crack than ours. Erixon likely will get PP time with the Rangers as well. But more importantly, the Rangers have a slew of Dmen who got NHL time without much in the way of AHL time. If you're in Erixon's situation, you would take the NYR situation over here.

I think from Erixons point of view he gets to spend time with his dad and within a few hours flight to Sweden and the rest of his family, living in New York with about as a good a chance of making it as a hockey player either way.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

No, but the comparing the two as you did is not a good example.

Totally different things.

I guess you're right, breaking a lease is actually breaking a contract, where as this kid didn't even do that, he just choose not to sign one.