WTF Dhl

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

you paid for shipping, not customs clearance. do you got a restaurant ask for pepsi and expect they will just give you a donut too?

I think a better analogy here is you ask how much for a Pepsi, they say $2- then there is a $3 surcharge for the glass useage. However they don't tell you that part until you've already taken a sip of the drink.

When I ship something and ask for a quote; I am asking them how much it will cost to get the item into my hands. They won't tell you that you owe for the fuel the truck used that day; or the lease on the aircraft they used. Those are all a cost of doing business; so the company works those into the price.

What makes the brokerage fees seem like a "rip off" is that the is an unexpected charge that is 50-200% of the original price paid. Meanwhile there is another option that could have been used that would have been 20% more had it been paid in advance.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I think a better analogy here is you ask how much for a Pepsi, they say $2- then there is a $3 surcharge for the glass useage. However they don't tell you that part until you've already taken a sip of the drink.

When I ship something and ask for a quote; I am asking them how much it will cost to get the item into my hands. They won't tell you that you owe for the fuel the truck used that day; or the lease on the aircraft they used. Those are all a cost of doing business; so the company works those into the price.

What makes the brokerage fees seem like a "rip off" is that the is an unexpected charge that is 50-200% of the original price paid. Meanwhile there is another option that could have been used that would have been 20% more had it been paid in advance.

isnt that the responsibility of the person you are buying from though? its not like the shipping company is changing terms mid transit, they entered into a contract for shipping with the shipper, its up to the shipper to properly contract the services and to explain to their client whats included.

you know the sellers can tell UPS to bill all those charges back to their account if they wanted to?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

you know the sellers can tell UPS to bill all those charges back to their account if they wanted to?

Bingo. I ship a lof of stuff. I always have the client's acct #.

[wooohooo]

Well the first time I bought something off Ebay it was about $60 dollars worth of stuff... had no idea what brokerage fees were but before I could get it I had to pay $30 dollars cash right there. I was so confused... I paid it anyways but those are fees they need to make known to you before you pay for the item. Seller doesn't have to do a damn, and the buyer has no clue. If the fee was a few dollars, whatever, but when it's 30-50% of the item sometimes, that should be stated upfront and clear.

The problem people have is you pay for shipping thinking you paid for everything in whole, then to get the item you have to pay another exorbitant amount. The thing with airlines is, yeah you have to pay all the extra taxes and what not, but you pay that before you give them your mastercard. It's not like when you go to the airport and ready to board they say, "we want another $100 dollars or you can't get on".

Brokerage fees are a huge PITA and should be included in the initial shipping fee, NOT when you get the item. Doesn't make any sense to me and I agree that it feels like complete robbery.

[wooohooo]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Bingo. I ship a lof of stuff. I always have the client's acct #.

What if you're buying off ebay?

[wooohooo]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

isnt that the responsibility of the person you are buying from though? its not like the shipping company is changing terms mid transit, they entered into a contract for shipping with the shipper, its up to the shipper to properly contract the services and to explain to their client whats included.

you know the sellers can tell UPS to bill all those charges back to their account if they wanted to?

When I ship something through UPS or FedEx or whatever, I don't know what the brokerage fees are. They don't tell me the buyer has to pay an extra $___ amount. I asked the clerk before what the brokerage fee was and she had no idea and said it was up to the buyer. I probably had someone that didn't know what they were doing but those are terms each party should know of.

[DementedReality]

brokerage and shipping are two distinct services and you are right, the courier doesnt always know the brokerage fee. it can vary depending on many factors.

this is a buy and seller issue, not a UPS or FDX issue. tell the buyer you are not paying the brokerage and if they dont want to prepay then dont buy the item. if you buy the item anyhow, dont blame the courier!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

isnt that the responsibility of the person you are buying from though? its not like the shipping company is changing terms mid transit, they entered into a contract for shipping with the shipper, its up to the shipper to properly contract the services and to explain to their client whats included.

By shipper; do you mean UPS? If so- we are in agreement.

But to be serious, what you are saying is that the person doing the shipping goes online, gets a shipping quote, and then is expected to call somebody to ask if the shipping quote includes all charges. What other industry does that? And don't say the airlines, even though they have surcharges they tell you about them before you pay; not when you are getting off the plane.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

did you know the reason USPS and Canada Post dont have to charge the same fee's and dont have duty and taxes (as often)?

a) because they are subsidized by taxpayers, they dont have to earn a profit

b) customs gives them preferential treatment for clearance.

so, sure take advantage of this, but dont accuse the private for profit companies of ripping you off, its not the case. they are in business to make a profit and dont have the benefit of customs overlooking the process for the mail.

I wonder whether you, or someone close to you, works for a courier company?

I want to be fair to you though, so I'll ask you a couple questions.

1. Is it 'right' for a courier to charge $40 to process an item costing $20?
2. Is it 'right' for a courier to charge a processing fee without disclosing UPFRONT what the fee is?
3. Is it 'right' for a company such as DHL to charge twice as much as their competitors for customs processing - again, without disclosing that a fee will be charged at all?
4. Is it 'right' for a courier to process customs documents on behalf of a recipient without (1) the recipients permission, or (2) providing the recipient an opportunity to Customs clear the shipment on their own? (Fedex at least normally provides this option)

It seems like you're saying anyone buying anything on the internet should just bend over and pay whatever the courier decides it wants to charge for services it was never asked to provide.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

as long as you understand that the postal companies are being subsidized by your taxes. so dont blame the private companies as crooks when they dont have a fair playing field. they are simply in business to make money, thats not a crook. if you want to talk about crooks, Bell Canada are thieves, but thats for another thread.

brokerage companies are not preying on the lazy, they provide a service to those who need it. if you dont need it, dont use it.

thats like saying restaurants prey on the lazy who dont want to cook dinner. if you want dinner cooked, served and cleaned up for you, it costs more then making it at home.

no?

The restaurant will tell you ahead of time what the meal costs and give you a choice to order from them or not.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by ken0042

By shipper; do you mean UPS? If so- we are in agreement.

But to be serious, what you are saying is that the person doing the shipping goes online, gets a shipping quote, and then is expected to call somebody to ask if the shipping quote includes all charges. What other industry does that? And don't say the airlines, even though they have surcharges they tell you about them before you pay; not when you are getting off the plane.

no, i am saying the shipper is the person contracting UPS.

if you buy something from him and ask him to include the shipping, thats what he has done by using UPS.

if you want it to include the brokerage and duty and taxes, then you should ask him to pay for that too.

who do you think should pay those charges if its not the consignee? UPS should just hire people to clear customs and not recover it from one of the parties (shipper / cnee) ?

[The Yen Man]

What I don't understand is why brokerage fees are so random. I used to order a lot of HK movies off this one site, and sometimes they charge brokerage, sometimes they don't. They're the exact same packages, worth the same amount. So what gives? At least be consistent so I know in advance how much I'm paying.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

1. Is it 'right' for a courier to charge $40 to process an item costing $20?
YES, why wouldnt it be? they have a cost of providing the service, the value notwithstanding. maybe you have to look at your shipping patterns to ensure you dont get into this situation.
2. Is it 'right' for a courier to charge a processing fee without disclosing UPFRONT what the fee is?
NO, but I am sure the fee's were agreed to in the T&C of the waybill that was signed by the shipper. Is it "right" that your shipper entered into a contract without disclosing to you all the terms?
3. Is it 'right' for a company such as DHL to charge twice as much as their competitors for customs processing - again, without disclosing that a fee will be charged at all?
YES, a company has a right to charge whatever they want. Its up to the market to determine if the price is fair or not.
4. Is it 'right' for a courier to process customs documents on behalf of a recipient without (1) the recipients permission, or (2) providing the recipient an opportunity to Customs clear the shipment on their own? (Fedex at least normally provides this option)
NO, DHL, UPS, FDX or whoevr should always call the consignee first and ask them if they have their own broker or would like the shipment cleared on their behalf.

I agree DHL especially has the WORST customer service, I would never use them unless I had to. Simply defending the process of customs clearance as not being a criminial charge.

It seems like you're saying anyone buying anything on the internet should just bend over and pay whatever the courier decides it wants to charge for services it was never asked to provide.

NO, I am saying understand what you are buying and when you or the shipper sign the waybill, understand what you have signed and what you have bought. You arent buying customs clearance when you ship, you are buying transport services.

I have been in the industry for over 20 years, the first 15 or so in the small parcel business and have done a few million dollars or more in business with all the major couriers.

for the most part, they are all the same. 97% of the time, just fine. the 3%, good luck as they all have no idea what real customer service is.

[PeteLFan]

If I refuse to pay the fee will it be sent too collections?

The whole point of ordering from the us was to save money, I could just as easily walk into gnc and get raped. This brokerage fee buisunees is a scam.

[Bill Bumface]

I'm pretty sure I win. My $1,500 Eurocup tickets that I sold because I bought different $1,500 Eurocup tickets took FIVE WEEKS to arrive at their destination when I paid for OVERNIGHT. I had to refund the guy for his tickets because they came after the match.

FedEx, somehow you beat UPS for sucking.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

If I refuse to pay the fee will it be sent too collections?

The whole point of ordering from the us was to save money, I could just as easily walk into gnc and get raped. This brokerage fee buisunees is a scam.

look, i know it sucks but stop referring to it as a scam. its not!

your problem is with the company you bought from, they could have easily agreed to pay the clearance, duty and taxes on your behalf but didnt.

take it up with them.

[PeteLFan]

It says that the cost I paid covers shipping and duty. Is brokerage something else?

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

It says that the cost I paid covers shipping and duty. Is brokerage something else?

yes, brokerage is the service of presenting your import for clearance.

duty is duty, would be due no matter how it clears. shipping, it was sent collect?

sounds like you werent even charged for brokerage. brokerage was free, whats the problem?

[PeteLFan]

I haven't even got my stuff yet so I don't know what's gonna happen. Heck I wasn't even aware of these new charges until I started this thread. I was just referring to the slow ass movement of my stuff.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

who do you think should pay those charges if its not the consignee? UPS should just hire people to clear customs and not recover it from one of the parties (shipper / cnee) ?

You and I are arguing over different points here. I say if UPS et al want to charge a brokerage fee- let them.

My issue is that shipping from the US to Canada always involves customs at some point. Why is it that the one part of the processing has a cost that is not charged up front? Why is it that shipping does not automatically include that brokerage fee built into the upfront price?

That is what seems to be "underhanded" to me- to be told the shipping is going to be one price; and then right at the end to be told there is another charge. Going back to our restaurant Pepsi example; if the cost of the drink is $5 then tell me up front; don't tell me it's $2 and then after it's too late tell me it's another $3.