2011 Canadian Election Thread

[SebC]

If Harper's senate appointments didn't stink, why did he announce it after the media no longer had the opportunity to ask questions?

============

Anyways, it turns out Ruth Ellen Brosseau isn't the only elusive new MP whose academic credentials are being questioned...

Jim Hillyer's "MA in Political Economy" and "advanced PhD studies in Constitutional Law" come from a school that isn't acredited, but apparently that's no big deal:

Hillyer, who also has a BA in philosophy from the University of Lethbridge, said the complaints about his credentials come from "bitter people grasping at straws and finding anything."

He said the notion of university accreditation is misunderstood and overrated: "Theoretically, a school could form it's own accreditation body and call itself accredited."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...?docId=6900146

Originally Posted by Lionel Steel

Lethbridge CPC candidate Jim Hillyer has decided not to participate in any more public forums.

His campaign says it's because he is going to devote his time to door-to-door campaigning, but that's pretty flimsy. He pretty much bombed at the forum they had here at the university, so it's pretty obvious they're hiding him from public view until the election.

Pretty weak overall, he's running in his first election for the Conservatives and a lot of people are interested in learning more about him.

[FlamesAddiction]

I thought it was kind of funny to see the NCC crticize the senate appointments considering the hand that Harper had in developing the ideology of that group.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I thought it was kind of funny to see the NCC crticize the senate appointments considering the hand that Harper had in developing the ideology of that group.

Harper hasn't really followed his ideology much, he's been more concerned with getting elected.

[old-fart]

The concerns with Hiilyer's schooling were brought up in the election campaign, and he admitted to going to the school and that it wasn't accredited. The voters elected him anyway. To cry about it now is just sour grapes. I'm pretty sure he actually has been to his riding before, can speak the language, and actually campaigned during, you know, the campaign.

Not at all the same as Vegas Brosseau.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by old-fart

The concerns with Hiilyer's schooling were brought up in the election campaign, and he admitted to going to the school and that it wasn't accredited. The voters elected him anyway. To cry about it now is just sour grapes. I'm pretty sure he actually has been to his riding before, can speak the language, and actually campaigned during, you know, the campaign.

I'm mentioning it now because I hadn't heard of it before today, nobody mentioned it earlier and I thought it was newsworthy.

I was not insunuating that a different outcome might have occured under any circumstance - this is Alberta after all.

[Slava]

Hillyer won the election, so we don't dare ask any questions about his qualifications now...he had blue signs and that's all you need to know. Plus, had he lost he probably would've been included in the senate appointment announcement from yesterday

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

Hillyer won the election, so we don't dare ask any questions about his qualifications now...he had blue signs and that's all you need to know. Plus, had he lost he probably would've been included in the senate appointment announcement from yesterday

What questions are there to be brought up?

He addressed the acedemic qualifications prior to voting day, lived (and I think grew up in) the riding, speaks the language of the riding and works here as well.

Its nice for lefties to try and make something out of nothing to distract from the garbage candidates that the NDP parachuted in but this is really a non-story.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

What questions are there to be brought up?

He addressed the acedemic qualifications prior to voting day, lived (and I think grew up in) the riding, speaks the language of the riding and works here as well.

Its nice for lefties to try and make something out of nothing to distract from the garbage candidates that the NDP parachuted in but this is really a non-story.

Well I watched a number of Facebook exchanges from CPC members who were vying for the same nomination as Hillyer, so pretty clearly there are some concerns amongst at least some members. One was that no one knew anything about this school he graduated from, and IIRC the other member said he had never even heard of Hillyer prior to the election....now to some who are uninvolved you'll say "big deal". The reality is that these are small circles though; it's strange that a guy comes out of nowhere and wins a nomination.

Then during the campaign Hillyer didn't attend forums. Again some will say "big deal" and say he didn't need to, etc. Fair enough. In Lethbridge I would submit that is not the case though. It's a smaller town with a lot of media coverage, and the riding covers a large area with forums in the smaller towns as well....it might seem odd to people in Calgary but it is kind of a big deal!

Then there was a video I watched on CBC where someone just wanted to ask him about the copyright legislation and Hillyer refused to speak with the guy, because he was too busy trying to campaign. The guy was totally polite and just looking for a few minutes of his time, but Hillyer just wouldn't oblige.

The one member I know of who ran against Hillyer for the nomination is a ferry involved and I would say respected member of the community down there. I say that from a totally non-partisan place, and would say that he wouldn't express concerns about Hillyer publicly unless he genuinely thought there was a problem....he has been a CPC supporter for many years as far as I know and would have nothing to gain from that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I watched a number of Facebook exchanges from CPC members who were vying for the same nomination as Hillyer, so pretty clearly there are some concerns amongst at least some members. One was that no one knew anything about this school he graduated from, and IIRC the other member said he had never even heard of Hillyer prior to the election....now to some who are uninvolved you'll say "big deal". The reality is that these are small circles though; it's strange that a guy comes out of nowhere and wins a nomination.

Then during the campaign Hillyer didn't attend forums. Again some will say "big deal" and say he didn't need to, etc. Fair enough. In Lethbridge I would submit that is not the case though. It's a smaller town with a lot of media coverage, and the riding covers a large area with forums in the smaller towns as well....it might seem odd to people in Calgary but it is kind of a big deal!

Then there was a video I watched on CBC where someone just wanted to ask him about the copyright legislation and Hillyer refused to speak with the guy, because he was too busy trying to campaign. The guy was totally polite and just looking for a few minutes of his time, but Hillyer just wouldn't oblige.

The one member I know of who ran against Hillyer for the nomination is a ferry involved and I would say respected member of the community down there. I say that from a totally non-partisan place, and would say that he wouldn't express concerns about Hillyer publicly unless he genuinely thought there was a problem....he has been a CPC supporter for many years as far as I know and would have nothing to gain from that.

I live down here and although did not vote in the candidate election this time, I know a lot of people who were involved so I am very familiar with Hillyer's story, but these are all issues that were present before the election and known to everyone who was a somewhat educated voter.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

I live down here and although did not vote in the candidate election this time, I know a lot of people who were involved so I am very familiar with Hillyer's story, but these are all issues that were present before the election and known to everyone who was a somewhat educated voter.

Right....so you know that there are still a lot of questions about a guy who makes almost no public appearances during an election campaign. Its not something dreamt up by the "lefties". Of course he is a shoe-in to win, that's why the nomination is hotly contested. That doesn't answer all of the questions though.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right....so you know that there are still a lot of questions about a guy who makes almost no public appearances during an election campaign. Its not something dreamt up by the "lefties". Of course he is a shoe-in to win, that's why the nomination is hotly contested. That doesn't answer all of the questions though.

If there were a lot of questions then people shouldn't vote for him. His academic history/credentials were addressed prior to the election so he wasn't hiding anything or misrepresenting himself.

He didn't go to the forums that was clear as day and reported on many times. The majority of voters still voted for him as a candidate.

This isn't a case of new information popping up after the election it was all pretty clear all along.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

If there were a lot of questions then people shouldn't vote for him. His academic history/credentials were addressed prior to the election so he wasn't hiding anything or misrepresenting himself.

He didn't go to the forums that was clear as day and reported on many times. The majority of voters still voted for him as a candidate.

This isn't a case of new information popping up after the election it was all pretty clear all along.

All I'm really saying is that this isn't something propagated by the "lefties" to distract from NDP candidates in some place we've never heard of. This guy in Lethbridge really had/has some questions about him and his actiions, and you know that....you freely admit that in fact.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

All I'm really saying is that this isn't something propagated by the "lefties" to distract from NDP candidates in some place we've never heard of. This guy in Lethbridge really had/has some questions about him and his actiions, and you know that....you freely admit that in fact.

By lefties I should have said lefty (SebC) who brought it up in relation to Brouseau or whatever her name is.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

By lefties I should have said lefty (SebC) who brought it up in relation to Brouseau or whatever her name is.

I think SebC is a centrist...there aren't many of us around these parts!

[Ark2]

So what exactly is the issue with Hillyer? Are you saying that his nomination was illegitimate?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ark2

So what exactly is the issue with Hillyer? Are you saying that his nomination was illegitimate?

No, he just refused to answer questions during the campaign and didn't attend forums. The education he has is from some school that sounds basically made-up....moon can probably recall the details of that better than me though.

He won the nomination, but some fairly well known Tories weren't too pleased with the way he campaigned and general approach. Frankly ut makes no difference...he won and won legitimately. No different than the Quebec NDP candidates really.

[Lionel Steel]

I live in Lethbridge and my biggest issue with Hillyer is skipping the candidate debates.

He showed up for the first one at the University and completely bombed. Giving broad, nonsensical answers and not even knowing the basics of his platform. His campaign pulled out of the next debate in Picture Butte without evening letting the organizing committee know. He proceeded to hide until the election under the guise of "door-to-door campaigning."

I mean, we expect pretty little of our candidates it seems and they get rewarded generously for being elected. Is it so little to ask that a candidate takes the time to make them selves available for public questioning? What's he going to do when they start debating in the House of Commons? Cover his ears and go into the fetal position?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I would guess that most of the vote drop is easily explained though. She wasn't invited to the debates, which is a huge blow in terms of credibility for the party. In the east in particular the rise of the NDP probably cost the greens a lot of votes as well.

I don't care for May, but it's still a huge accomplishment. If she's effective she could build that one seat into more next time around....it's no small feat really.

If I remember right from the last election her share of the popular vote dropped after the debate in the last election, so I don't really buy that.

The Green Party campaign outside of her home riding was non existent as was their advertising compared to her last election because all resources were placed in her home riding.

I would think that she's going to have a hard time holding onto her seat in the next election, and her ranting that because she's a woman and a party leader that she should get preferential treatment in the house will get her nowhere.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ark2

So what exactly is the issue with Hillyer? Are you saying that his nomination was illegitimate?

Keyboard is messed up so I will keep it brief and add more tomorrow if need be.

His nomination was legit under the rules but my understanding was there were a lot of votes for him simply because he was mormon and many new party memberships sold to mormons specifically to vote one of their own in.

There were other issues about him winning the nomination but the biggest complaint I heard was even in that process the qualifications of the candidate were ignored and instead he was voted for because he was a mormon.

After that there were a bunch of issues that started to come up prior to and during the campaign. The main one being his lack of going to the forums.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Ark2

So what exactly is the issue with Hillyer? Are you saying that his nomination was illegitimate?

I personally feel that claiming to have degrees is deceitful if they do not come from an accredited insitution, particularly if it is not volutarilty disclosed where they come from.

If I say I have an MA in Political Economics and a PhD in Constitutional Law, but I don't tell you the come from the "SebC Institute of Imaginary Deities"... you'd probably think that for all intents and purposes I've been misrepresenting my education to almost the same magnitude as when the NDP said Ruth Ellen had completed her degree when in fact she was only working towards it.

Then this guy says today that accreditation is meaningless. I disagree. I think the lack of accreditation for his degrees makes him a weasel.

Yes, people found out about before the election and therefore the results of the election were not effected, and that's significantly different from the Ruth Ellen situation. However, I don't feel that the timeframe for getting busted makes Hillyer's conduct any more or less ethical. Claiming degrees from unaccredited institutions is pretty bad. If the place where Hillyer's "degrees" came from was in Canada, it would not have been able to give him an MA or PhD without being accredited.

Hillyer justified his actions saying "Theoretically, a school could form it's own accreditation body and call itself accredited." This is technically true, but in Canada, such a 'self-accredited' school would not be able to grant degrees.

I also find it amusing that apparently a bunch of people here apparently knew about this before the election but none of them thought it was newsworthy. Hello, partisans.