Guns at home more likely to be used stupidly than in self-defense

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Having a shotgun in a rural environment makes perfect sense. You don't know what sort of situation you can get into with wildlife.

But packing a pistol under your pillow in an urban environment is just stupid.

Who puts a pistol under their pillow? That's just plain dumb.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by NBC

Especially now that you can no longer buy strychnine to poison them. Gophers - or more specifically Richardson's ground squirrels - that is.

And the poison you can buy doesn't work, and does more to make your pets sick than it does to kill the gophers.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I don't have statistics at hand but it seems like most stats I've seen in the past show the per capita firearm death rate in the US being significantly higher than other developer nations. The simplest answer to throw out is that this is a direct result of the freer availability of guns. But as other point out, guns don't kill, people do. Does this mean that the US just has a higher proportion of homicidal people?

Does anyone dispute that the US has higher gun death rates? Does anyone care to speculate why that is?

We have a big gang problem here in the states. These are the same people that would get weapons no matter if they were illegal or not. Even in Alabama (Birmingham) it's not the safest city but I don't hear too much about gun violence here. It's the New Yorks, LA's, Chicago(were in ILL gun laws are ######ed) that give the rest of the country a bad name. I wonder how many shootings happen in rual Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, ect

[Thor]

I won't lie, I love guns. I miss my brothers ar-15

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Azure

Don't mind him. He's only one of the long list of posters on CP who don't seem to understand that laws and regulations don't solve the underlying problem behind gun violence.

Like many of the US politicians, they all fail to realize that until they fix poverty problems and an unsecured border, gun crime will continue to increase and get worse.

this here is the single biggest point to the anti-gun crowd that doesn't seem to grasp or maybe its not getting across from the other side.

There are laws against weed all over the place...does that stop it from getting grown, processed, and sold? No.

Why would it do anything differently for guns? Manufacturers would still make them, sell them in a country where they are legal and then smuggle them into the USA where everyone who buys one is then a criminal. It's being going on forever with contraband of all kinds....but somehow, make guns illegal and people will stop acquiring them? Makes no sense.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by transplant99

this here is the single biggest point to the anti-gun crowd that doesn't seem to grasp or maybe its not getting across from the other side.

There are laws against weed all over the place...does that stop it from getting grown, processed, and sold? No.

Why would it do anything differently for guns? Manufacturers would still make them, sell them in a country where they are legal and then smuggle them into the USA where everyone who buys one is then a criminal. It's being going on forever with contraband of all kinds....but somehow, make guns illegal and people will stop acquiring them? Makes no sense.

Ridiculous comparison.

Anyone can grow weed. Making guns and ammunition is a little more specialized.

People consume weed. They buy it, smoke it and then buy more. Selling it is an on going profitable venture.

Most sane people aren't going to be buying guns on a regular basis. Selling guns is not an on going profitable venture unless you can recruit new customers on a regular basis.

And from your logic, I'd assume that you feel other things like child pornography should be legalized as well since we can't stop it from being bought and sold?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Ridiculous comparison.

Anyone can grow weed. Making guns and ammunition is a little more specialized.

People consume weed. They buy it, smoke it and then buy more. Selling it is an on going profitable venture.

Most sane people aren't going to be buying guns on a regular basis. Selling guns is not an on going profitable venture unless you can recruit new customers on a regular basis.

And from your logic, I'd assume that you feel other things like child pornography should be legalized as well since we can't stop it from being bought and sold?

Okay, Swap weed out for lets say Meth.... Now we are comparing a manufactured substance that is illegal that people will kill to get the money to buy it.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Most sane people aren't going to be buying guns on a regular basis. Selling guns is not an on going profitable venture unless you can recruit new customers on a regular basis.

Really? Do you think that the majority of firearm owners in Canada buy one firearm and call it quits?

Do you know anything about ballistics? Hunting regulations? Different types of firearms?

I find this comment to be most perplexing.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

We have a big gang problem here in the states. These are the same people that would get weapons no matter if they were illegal or not. Even in Alabama (Birmingham) it's not the safest city but I don't hear too much about gun violence here. It's the New Yorks, LA's, Chicago(were in ILL gun laws are ######ed) that give the rest of the country a bad name. I wonder how many shootings happen in rual Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, ect

Actually Ala' has a high rate of murder, vastly higher than New York, and the 'south' has had the highest rate of murder for the last decade or two. Rural states tend to have higher rates of murder, what we tend to forget is the vast majority of murders occur within the family, husband or boyfriend shooting the wife is by far the most commen.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Azure

There is a test you need to write in order to get your firearms license. But it only requires common sense for the most part, and is very easy to pass.

I don't think its enough. I agree that you should have to take an advanced course which you pay yourself.

That sounds better than it would be. We live in a town of 5 000 with about 15 000 people within the valley. I couldn't enroll my son in a hunters training course this year because there wasn't enough people willing to pay the 300.00 dollars to take the course. Now he will have to challenge the test. Id rather he was trained even though I have taught him a lot regarding safe handling.

When I was my son's age they offered the Hunters training course is school as an elective. If we passed the Rod and gun club would take us out a couple Saturdays to trap Muskrat. There was no cost involved other than the fee to write the test.

If they were going to require training I would think that one 4 hour course should suffice for both restricted and non-restricted. There isn't really that much to be taught. Also, I would think the Federal Government should look at reconizing the provinces Hunters training courses as long as they contain the required information.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Ridiculous comparison.

Anyone can grow weed. Making guns and ammunition is a little more specialized.

People consume weed. They buy it, smoke it and then buy more. Selling it is an on going profitable venture.

Most sane people aren't going to be buying guns on a regular basis. Selling guns is not an on going profitable venture unless you can recruit new customers on a regular basis.

And from your logic, I'd assume that you feel other things like child pornography should be legalized as well since we can't stop it from being bought and sold?

Actually like any other hobby, gun owners in Canada tend to buy a bunch of guns, in the same way that I have 4 pairs of speakers and 3 full stereos in my house.

In the states you have the 'casual' gun owner though, who will buy one pistol for self defense, they will then put it somewhere stupid, bedside cabinet or the like, and forget about it, the gun will generally only get used when they get drunk and shoot their cheating wife, girlfriend, lousy neighbour complaining about the music or themselves. Or occasionally when their kid finds it and plays cowboys and indians with it.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Actually Ala' has a high rate of murder, vastly higher than New York, and the 'south' has had the highest rate of murder for the last decade or two. Rural states tend to have higher rates of murder, what we tend to forget is the vast majority of murders occur within the family, husband or boyfriend shooting the wife is by far the most commen.

Yeah I feel like a dumb arse now since I just read today's paper and someone was killed here in Tuscaloosa by a gun. The guy wasn't murdered, however he was killed after he kicked in the door of the shooters house and entered.

But still I type something like that and then someone gets killed.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

One factor is that a higher percentage of American citizens have been trained to kill and have lived through combat situations. Another is the large amount of illegal immigrants from Mexico. Violence has been spilling across that borders for years. The sub-culture within urban Black communities has always tended to be violent. I'm sure there are many others as well.

Lol. Blame the mexicans and black people, or the army. That is awesome!

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Lol. Blame the mexicans and black people, or the army. That is awesome!

So you prefer political correctness to truth?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Yeah I feel like a dumb arse now since I just read today's paper and someone was killed here in Tuscaloosa by a gun. The guy wasn't murdered, however he was killed after he kicked in the door of the shooters house and entered.

But still I type something like that and then someone gets killed.

Actually your shooting is a perfect example of the problem, on the one hand it was self defense, in that it appears a drunken buffon was kicking at the door of (my guess) another drunken buffon, who then shot him. That said had they had no guns they would have had a bit of pushing and shoving and everyone would have lived, all be it with a bruise or two, you can read it both ways really.

Hope you and yours are safe by the way. Let everyone know our prayers are with them.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Actually your shooting is a perfect example of the problem, on the one hand it was self defense, in that it appears a drunken buffon was kicking at the door of (my guess) another drunken buffon, who then shot him. That said had they had no guns they would have had a bit of pushing and shoving and everyone would have lived, all be it with a bruise or two, you can read it both ways really.

Hope you and yours are safe by the way. Let everyone know our prayers are with them.

Where did it say anything about anyone being drunk?

[MelBridgeman]

bottom line people are stupid. without guns it's something else...but that's not to say gun control is a bad thing...but maybe an IQ test or something.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

So you prefer political correctness to truth?

So now it's a 'truth', as in a fact?

[driveway]

Originally Posted by PIMking

It's the New Yorks, LA's, Chicago(were in ILL gun laws are ######ed) that give the rest of the country a bad name. I wonder how many shootings happen in rual Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, ect

Statistics prove you wrong:

The five states with the highest per capita gun death rates -- Louisiana, Alaska, Montana, Tennessee and Alabama -- had a per capita gun death rate far exceeding the national per capita gun death rate of 10.32 per 100,000.

Louisiana had the highest rate of gun death, 19.04 per 100,000 and has household gun ownership of 45.6 percent. Alaska had a gun death rate 17.49 per 100,000 and household gun ownership of 60.6 percent. Montana had a gun death rate of 17.22 per 100,000 and 61.4 percent gun ownership.

New York actually has the 5th LOWEST rate of gun-death per 100,000 people at 5.20 per 100,000.

linkys: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2008/...5011209186884/

http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm

Also, stats for 2009 gun murders - not just deaths - can be found here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-us-state#data

Where you'll find your home state of Alabama is the 3rd most dangerous state for gun-murders in America with a rate of 8.02 gun homicides per 100,000 people. Top two were DC at a staggering 18.84 gun homicides per 100,000 and Louisiana with 10.46.

The national average was 2.98/100,000 and those three particular states you mention, Iowa, Montana and Minnesota had rates of 0.40, 4.94 and 5.64 respectively.

All studies that I can find show a direct correlation between higher rates of gun ownership and both gun-deaths and gun-murders.

Also, if you consider that in America the gun-murder rate is 2.98/100,000 and the gun-death rate is 10.32/100,000 that means the rate of self-inflicted or accidental gun-death is 7.34/100,000.

More guns means more people get killed by guns, period.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Where did it say anything about anyone being drunk?

It doesn't, but read between the lines, they got into a verbal altercation, then dead boy decided to scrap, he then kicks at the front door several times, then gets shot, no one calls the cops or an ambulance, they just put him in a car and drive him to the hospital.

This has drunken low rent/trailor park stupidity writen all over it.

Just Google earthed the neighbourhood, total ghetto!