I guess they could have buried him on land somewhere... Just have a satellite and cameras affixed to his grave at all times. When his followers inevitably dropped by... BOOM!
Burial at sea is the right thing to do to avoid creating a shrine or pilgrimage site. That is why the site of Hitler's death (The Soviets scattered his ashes in a secret location) and the Hitler bunker are paved over as a parking lot and residential complex in Germany with absolutely no indication that anything was there so that it doesn't become a shrine.
Doing anything else just endangers Americans as it could incite more anger.
What the US needs to do is to release photos of the body however. We got photos of Saddam and his sons. Why not Osama?
623. * If a person dies on a ship and if there is no fear of the decay of the dead body and if there is no problem in retaining it for sometime on the ship, it should be kept on it and buried in the ground after reaching the land. Otherwise, after giving Ghusl, Hunut, Kafan and Namaz-e-Mayyit it should be lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet. And as far as possible it should not be lowered at a point where it is eaten up immediately by the sea predators.
624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.
I agree, they should have hung his ass from the tallest tree on the White house lawn. He didn't honor 'Human Tradition' by taking down the WTC, so why did they give him his final honor? Its exactly what he wanted, he died as a martyr. They should have shown him NO honor. Now it shows young extremists that if they get caught and killed, they will still be buried in their tradition.
Do that, and you perpetuate the image that radical Muslim extremists paint of the Great White Satan of the West. This is not the way to win over the hearts of fence-sitting youth in the middle east mentally debating whether to try to lead a good, decent life, or to take up the sword against America in Osama's Jihad.
While the man certainly deserved no respect, it was the right thing to afford him every ceremonial rite his culture bestows upon their dead. In these tumultuous times, it is a humungous olive branch to hold out.
If you dishonour and disgrace his body, and wind of it gets out to the middle east, you've just made it that much harder to stop the cycle of violence.
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But why wouldn't they just initiate one on their own like they did on 9/11?
Because it was a big, elaborate, complicated event that took alot of planning....you don't need successive large scale attacks that to keep the fear alive.
No need for the green text, ... it's well known here that I think 9-11 was a fraud, and I stand by that 100%.
There's a special level of reverence for the Seals in the Special Forces Community. The individual Seal is lavishly trained and equip and can work well as an individual or in a group. They have the sea based component that puts them above all.
Their primary goal is usually intelligence gathering and reconnaissance, securing beach heads, clearing mines in landing zones. They're also well versed in building to building fighting, snatch and grabs, sniping and pretty well anything else.
They have a far more stringent filtering program in training and it is an exclusive company. Take the training for Seals that you see in the movies and ramp up the intensity by multiple factors.
I have tremendous respect for JTF-2, they've done some amazing things and some things that are stuff of the special forces community legends. But they're not as well rounded as the Seals, they don't have the intelligence backing that the Seals have. I'd probably say that the biggest difference is at the Senior NCO level in the Seals.
People put a lot of weight behind the sane Seal Team 6, but at the end of the day the other available groups are every bit as competent.
JTF-2 can hold its own with the other special forces units around the world, I don't question that, but there are two groups that stand out in my head and one of them is the Seals, the other is Israel's Sayeret Matkal
To add more that I learned in class/research (and maybe CC can confirm that it's true)
The US Special Forces community is huge compared to Canada's. Each branch of the military in the US has their own special warefare groups. All of this is unified under the umbrella of Joint Special Operations Command and led by a 4 star general at the top. Because of the funding and the man power, the make up of a special forces are much larger than Canada.
within the Seals designation, there are 6 teams (Seal team 1-6). 1-5 represents the area that they are deployed based on where the 5 carriers are located in the world. 6 is the special one that takes on current counter-terrorism operations. I'm not sure, but there is either a rotation between the teams to make up the roster for 6, or individual members apply for 6.
Within each team, there are somewhere between 50-100 members, divided into boat crews or units of 8-12. The men that make up the unit are all cross trained but specialize in a specific discipline (demo, long range, comms, intel, recon..etc) and led by an officer and a senior NCO. The units are rotated between active duty abroad or training standby at home (or on base). It is the unit level that goes into operations, with the number of units dependent on the complexity of the mission. From the sounds of the raid, 2 unit or boat crews of Seal Team 6 went in to Pakistan. 1 team was on standbye while the primary team breached the compound.
This level of organization is based on the grandfather of all special forces, the British SAS. They have 4 Squadrons/Wings of about 60 men. Each wing is divided into 4 troops of 16 men each. Within each Troop, that is further divided into a patrol group of 4 as the most basic SAS fighting unit. Now, each Wing has 4 troops. Those troops specialize in one of the 4 areas: Boat (naval), Air (paratrooper), mobility (desert and mechanical), and Mountain (alpine/winter). Each patrol will eventually have stints in each of the troop areas.
Lastly, The Wings actively rotate to make up the special counter-revoluntary wing, the main counter terrorism arm of the SAS. On this rotation, Each troop spends time in a state of permenant readiness to respond to an incident in the UK or abroad, while the rest spend their time training exclusively on anti terrorism tactics. After a period, the whole wing resumes their normal activities, and the next wing starts the rotation.
Anyways, to bring this to a close. The Canadians JTF2 does not have the size or the orientation of the US. However, they model their training and command structure of the US and British forces. One thing that makes JTF-2 unique is that each individual member of JTF-2 is trained in absolutely every discipline.
I have to find the links to this but there was a documentary on the process and trials people go through to even be considered as potential Seal candidates. Many men in the military go through that program to simply to prove that they can do it but progress no further. It's literally hell on earth and the drop out rate is like 90% or something from some of the toughest people you can imagine who simply cannot endure it. Even then they are not Seals but only potential candidates.
Because it was a big, elaborate, complicated event that took alot of planning....you don't need successive large scale attacks that to keep the fear alive.
No need for the green text, ... it's well known here that I think 9-11 was a fraud, and I stand by that 100%.
You should really get off the internet before the men in black suits get you.
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Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
Because it was a big, elaborate, complicated event that took alot of planning....you don't need successive large scale attacks that to keep the fear alive.
No need for the green text, ... it's well known here that I think 9-11 was a fraud, and I stand by that 100%.
Well why not a successful small scale attack to perpetuate the fear then?
And 10 years apart wouldnt exactly be "succesive" by any means, particularly when Al-Queda has been active all over the world since.
Because it was a big, elaborate, complicated event that took alot of planning....you don't need successive large scale attacks that to keep the fear alive.
No need for the green text, ... it's well known here that I think 9-11 was a fraud, and I stand by that 100%.
You know how to keep the mood light after such dire events as the elimination of Bin Laden. Congratulations, you're the comedic relief of this thread!
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You should really get off the internet before the men in black suits get you.
Sorry, but I don't remember who that is at all for some reason but I have an incredible urge to kill it because of the moon landings. He really should get some help ironing his suit though.
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the Hitler bunker are paved over as a parking lot and residential complex in Germany with absolutely no indication that anything was there so that it doesn't become a shrine.
It's actually rather pleasant neighborhood now with green space/condos. There is a bit of a bulletin board at street level which does indicate the significant of the location though - it was strange reading about the remnants of the bunker under my feet while I watched a gal walk her dog just across the street.
EDIT: Ahhh, here we go:
Last edited by chemgear; 05-02-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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Shot with a double tap in the left side of his face.
And why am I not surprised by the conspiracy theorists?
Anyways, Obama deserves props for this. Seems like for all his apparent inexperience, he sure likes to open a can of whoop ass on bad guys. Pirates, and now this. And who knows how many other operations we don't know about.
Do that, and you perpetuate the image that radical Muslim extremists paint of the Great White Satan of the West. This is not the way to win over the hearts of fence-sitting youth in the middle east mentally debating whether to try to lead a good, decent life, or to take up the sword against America in Osama's Jihad.
While the man certainly deserved no respect, it was the right thing to afford him every ceremonial rite his culture bestows upon their dead. In these tumultuous times, it is a humungous olive branch to hold out.
If you dishonour and disgrace his body, and wind of it gets out to the middle east, you've just made it that much harder to stop the cycle of violence.
I hear ya, but honestly, there is no 'Right" way to dispose of his remains. There will still be an Al-Quada, there will still be Muslim extremists who hate the the west, there will still be war, and there will still be terrorist attacks. I grant you that it may increase the violence, but just because he is dead, doesn't mean that the violence stops.
Many will carry on their Holy War in his name now that he is dead, just as they did when he was alive.
They (Muslim extremists) never show the our soldiers, journalists or tourists that they kill any burial rights. They never show fear of us retaliating against them, so why should we show fear?
They didn't show any concern for our innocent civilians on 9/11, or suicide bombings, so why should we extend them the courtesy of not bombing zones that harbor terrorists for the fear of killing their innocent people.
Throwing him into the sea was the right choice, but there was no reason to broadcast to the whole word that you did it in the Muslim tradition.
We have to stand up for ourselves, our people, and our beliefs.
To add more that I learned in class/research (and maybe CC can confirm that it's true)
The US Special Forces community is huge compared to Canada's. Each branch of the military in the US has their own special warefare groups. All of this is unified under the umbrella of Joint Special Operations Command and led by a 4 star general at the top. Because of the funding and the man power, the make up of a special forces are much larger than Canada.
within the Seals designation, there are 6 teams (Seal team 1-6). 1-5 represents the area that they are deployed based on where the 5 carriers are located in the world. 6 is the special one that takes on current counter-terrorism operations. I'm not sure, but there is either a rotation between the teams to make up the roster for 6, or individual members apply for 6.
Within each team, there are somewhere between 50-100 members, divided into boat crews or units of 8-12. The men that make up the unit are all cross trained but specialize in a specific discipline (demo, long range, comms, intel, recon..etc) and led by an officer and a senior NCO. The units are rotated between active duty abroad or training standby at home (or on base). It is the unit level that goes into operations, with the number of units dependent on the complexity of the mission. From the sounds of the raid, 2 unit or boat crews of Seal Team 6 went in to Pakistan. 1 team was on standbye while the primary team breached the compound.
This level of organization is based on the grandfather of all special forces, the British SAS. They have 4 Squadrons/Wings of about 60 men. Each wing is divided into 4 troops of 16 men each. Within each Troop, that is further divided into a patrol group of 4 as the most basic SAS fighting unit. Now, each Wing has 4 troops. Those troops specialize in one of the 4 areas: Boat (naval), Air (paratrooper), mobility (desert and mechanical), and Mountain (alpine/winter). Each patrol will eventually have stints in each of the troop areas.
Lastly, The Wings actively rotate to make up the special counter-revoluntary wing, the main counter terrorism arm of the SAS. On this rotation, Each troop spends time in a state of permenant readiness to respond to an incident in the UK or abroad, while the rest spend their time training exclusively on anti terrorism tactics. After a period, the whole wing resumes their normal activities, and the next wing starts the rotation.
Anyways, to bring this to a close. The Canadians JTF2 does not have the size or the orientation of the US. However, they model their training and command structure of the US and British forces. One thing that makes JTF-2 unique is that each individual member of JTF-2 is trained in absolutely every discipline.
I thought Seal team 6 was formerly a Special Development Group that was disbanded after exposing lots of security breaches on US installations and embarassing high ranking officials.
I'd say Delta is also quite comparable to SEALS and SAS. All have counter terrorism as part of their mission profiles.
