2011 Canadian Election Thread

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Stranger

I just have to get this off my chest.

Layton walked into this Chinatown massage parlour called "The Velvet Touch" at 9pm and no warning alarms went off in his head that maybe this isn't a legit place. If I'm in the same situation that's the first thing that comes to mind.

I really don't care about the whole situation, but Jack is really very naive (which I can see in some of the backtracking on policies he's been talking about this week) or a really bad liar. Either way he's better suited for a position in parliment like he's used to where he can talk all he wants and not have to make any real important decisions.

Personally I'd rather he lie about a rub-and-tug than about the nature of our democracy.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Maybe that's what it is for you, but, for the most part, you follow politics and are in tuned to what's going on. Most people aren't like that at all. Ask them why they don't like Harper and they will probably tell you that they think he is a dork or they don't like his haircut.

I realize this, but I think that has a lot more to do with partisanship. It goes both ways, of course. My dad, for instance, is a CPC member (I'm not) and he is absolutely giddy over the fact that the Liberals are getting crushed. I try to tell him how the Conservatives blew what should have been a cake walk to a majority, but he doesn't seem to care. I really hate partisanship like that. Say what you will about me, but if it took voting for the Liberals to stop the NDP from gaining power, I would do it without hesitation.

Which is why they need a new leader. We've seen what is important to the people in this election, find a charismatic guy that talks a good game and the CPC will get their majority.

Harper is the best leader the CPC has ever had (in terms of electability). This is largely because he has been willing to move the CPC to the middle, and because he's very good at controlling the agenda (read, not talking about the things that make the Conservatives uncomfortable and muffling his caucus). The reality is that many Canadians are fundamentally liberal (or socialist). It will always be difficult for the CPC to gain a majority, regardless of leader.

Flaherty? Predicted no recession, created the budget update that almost took the Cons out of government. Prentice? Corporate hack, the driving force behind unpopular copyright bills. Kenney? Popular here, but does the rest of the country really know him? Mackay? Probably the best option, but risks alienating the "Reform" CPC voters.

[V]

Originally Posted by SebC

Mackay? Probably the best option, but risks alienating the "Reform" CPC voters.

Doubtful. Until there's another viable option the Reform crowd will be more than happy to blindly mark an X beside the Conservatives. We've been doing it for decades now.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by V

Doubtful. Until there's another viable option the Reform crowd will be more than happy to blindly mark an X beside the Conservatives. We've been doing it for decades now.

CPC hasn't even been around for decades. The Conservatives have been two parties before... they might become two parties again. Or just suffer from reduced turnout in one segment of the base.

Either way... to increase their popularity the CPC needs to move left. What they won't be able to do is convince Canadians to vote for a more radically right wing platform simply by changing their leadership. But how much of a move to the left will CPC supporters allow?

[V]

CPC hasn't even been around for decades. The Conservatives have been two parties before... they might become two parties again. Or just suffer from reduced turnout in one segment of the base.

What I'm saying, though is as long as there is only one party, whether or not it's the CPC or the PC party, the right wing crowd will vote one way and only one way. It doesn't matter if MacKay is leader, that won't be enough for right wingers to find another party. Unless you think he could be the catalyst for another split, but I doubt that.

Either way... to increase their popularity the CPC needs to move left. What they won't be able to do is convince Canadians to vote for a more radically right wing platform simply by changing their leadership. But how much of a move to the left will CPC supporters allow?

Socially they've moved significantly left. Abortion and gay rights are completely off the table. What would've been considered a topic a couple years ago are now dead. I highly doubt this will result in even the smallest movement for the right wing areas like Alberta.

It's why I think the hidden agenda nonsense is so silly. If the CPC has been willing to sacrifice its ideals to gain power, what makes you think they'll be willing to give up that power if they ever get the majority? Re-addressing the issues that have died would be political suicide by now.

It's kind of funny, because I think the only reason the Cons even appear to be more right wing than the Libs right now is that the Libs have gone full-on NDP. They shifted left more than the Cons did.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by V

What I'm saying, though is as long as there is only one party, whether or not it's the CPC or the PC party, the right wing crowd will vote one way and only one way. It doesn't matter if MacKay is leader, that won't be enough for right wingers to find another party. Unless you think he could be the catalyst for another split, but I doubt that.

I don't think the extreme right will vote against the CPC, but they might just stay home. Or split. It's funny... a majority is a great thing for a party, but once a party has a majority making the tent bigger means making more compromises and becomes undesirable. The more successful a party gets, the more likely a split becomes, even if the party does not attain a majority (because small parties with concentrated support can be effective, like the BQ). And the CPC has been relatively successful lately. I'm not predicting a split, but I am saying that CPC under Mackay could be approaching the conditions that could lead to one.

Originally Posted by V

Socially they've moved significantly left. Abortion and gay rights are completely off the table. What would've been considered a topic a couple years ago are now dead. I highly doubt this will result in even the smallest movement for the right wing areas like Alberta.

It's why I think the hidden agenda nonsense is so silly. If the CPC has been willing to sacrifice its ideals to gain power, what makes you think they'll be willing to give up that power if they ever get the majority? Re-addressing the issues that have died would be political suicide by now.

I do agree that for a government that cares about re-election, a majority is not that different from a minority. But if you accept that, you then have to accept its corollary, that a minority is not that different from a majority. And if that's the case, then you have to hold the CPC responsible for their increased spending 2005-2008.

Nevertheless I can point to one occasion where we knew exactly how a CPC majority would've differed from the CPC minority: the 2008 budget update - which, in my Keynesian view, was a terrible piece of policy.

Originally Posted by V

It's kind of funny, because I think the only reason the Cons even appear to be more right wing than the Libs right now is that the Libs have gone full-on NDP. They shifted left more than the Cons did.

I'm not sure exactly what your are trying to say here, but IMO the CPC has consistently been to the right of the Libs overall. In terms of fiscal responsibility specifically, the Libs have outflanked them to the right at times (Chretien, Martin, maybe 2005-2008). The Libs have certainly moved to the left - calling their platform "full on NDP" may be taking it a bit far.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Slava

I totally agree....except I have a feeling we're not talking about the same guy!

When is that picture from? I thought that the place closed down over a decade ago though?

Leaked by Liberals?
http://www.montrealgazette.com/mobil...tml?id=4707638

Andrew Coyne knew about it months ago?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J4dfN1g06r...+hypocrite.jpg

[starseed]

So, the final tally is

Conservative media: 31
Liberal media: 0
Socialist media: 2
Separatist media: 1

This makes sense considering how many newspapers and magazines are owned by conservative groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspap...election,_2011

[HeartsOfFire]

Today is election day.

Those of you working today, do not forget you have the legal right to vote, even on company time. Canadian law demands that if you cannot make it to your polling station due to the hours you work, your employer must grant you three (3) hours paid time off to go and vote without consequence or reprimand.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Leaked by Liberals?
http://www.montrealgazette.com/mobil...tml?id=4707638

Andrew Coyne knew about it months ago?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J4dfN1g06r...+hypocrite.jpg

Totally called it:

Originally Posted by Ark2

If any party leaked this, I can't help but think it was the Liberals. Everyone associates the Sun with the CPC. They'd have to be complete idiots to leak it to them and think that no one was going to draw any conclusions that they lit the fuse. Right now, looking at comments on message boards, I see two groups: one that is disgusted with Layton because they believe he solicited a prostitute and another that is disgusted with Harper because they believe that he leaked this story. It should be very telling based on what kind of response (if any) Harper and Ignatieff give towards this.

Just sayin...

[Cheese]

Went to vote this morning...Polling station was packed! I have never seen it like that before! It was almost chaos LOL. Hope thats what happens at every polling station!
Get out and VOTE!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Totally called it:



Just sayin...

All that really proves is that the story was old news. Andrew Coyne isn't a Liberal, btw. He is voting for them this time, but he couldn't wait to get rid of Paul Martin in 2006.

You're closer to Toronto than me though...can you think of any politicians who might have an inside track to get a retired police officer to speak?

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by zamler

Ugh. Do the people at Google not know how Canadians vote?

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Ugh. Do the people at Google not know how Canadians vote?

Awkward cardboard dividers?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Slava

All that really proves is that the story was old news. Andrew Coyne isn't a Liberal, btw. He is voting for them this time, but he couldn't wait to get rid of Paul Martin in 2006.

I was referring to the story that said the Liberals tried to leak it last election.

You're closer to Toronto than me though...can you think of any politicians who might have an inside track to get a retired police officer to speak?

Yeah, yeah, I know who you are going to say. Let's just ignore the fact that the Liberals have tried to leak this story before and assume that it was Fantino.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Slava

All that really proves is that the story was old news.

Really?

- It proves that the story has been around for a long time.
- It proves that the person(s) leaking it won't give up, since it didn't die and since it has come up again and again. Multiple concerted efforts to discredit Layton.
- It proves that the burden of proof for running a story at SunTV is really low.
- If it came from the Liberals (as claimed in the first story), it proves that they are anywhere close to as noble and upstanding as their supporters would have us believe.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by starseed

So, the final tally is

Conservative media: 31
Liberal media: 0
Socialist media: 2
Separatist media: 1

This makes sense considering how many newspapers and magazines are owned by conservative groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspap...election,_2011

Conservative "groups" own media outlets? Hadn't heard that one before.

And perhaps, just maybe, newspaper editors country wide understand that NDP economic policies and the following spending would devastate the economy right across the country, and therefore are backing the one party who can form government and wont go willy nilly blowing the crap out of industry?

Or you could be right....a mass conspiracy by newspapers to elect the one leader who wont talk to them as much as they want.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Today is election day.

Those of you working today, do not forget you have the legal right to vote, even on company time. Canadian law demands that if you cannot make it to your polling station due to the hours you work, your employer must grant you three (3) hours paid time off to go and vote without consequence or reprimand.

Technically, what the law demands is that you have three hours during which time the polling stations are open to go and vote.

So, since I believe that most polling stations are open until 8:00pm, if you are off work at 5:00pm you are good. Similarly, since they mostly open at 9:00am, if you start work at 12:00 or later, you are also good.

This election should have minimal impact on anyone's work day, unless you are working a 12 hour shift that overlaps the election.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Technically, what the law demands is that you have three hours during which time the polling stations are open to go and vote.

So, since I believe that most polling stations are open until 8:00pm, if you are off work at 5:00pm you are good. Similarly, since they mostly open at 9:00am, if you start work at 12:00 or later, you are also good.

This election should have minimal impact on anyone's work day, unless you are working a 12 hour shift that overlaps the election.

Killjoy.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Killyjoy.

I prefer Buzz Killington...