2011 Canadian Election Thread

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

As it should, because the CPC best represent me continuing my standard of living.

As opposed to us long-time NDP voters that are voting NDP because I think they represent lowering my standard of living for the sake of those that make less than I do.

As much as I have jumped back and forth between the NDP and Green party, I don't like where this is heading. I'm still very much certain that our broken first-past-the-post democracy will put the Conservatives in a majority with only 37% of the popular vote.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

From many different prespectives an NDP Canada doesn't look so bad. If you're a student, how could one argue tuition caps and higher student tax exemptions. If you're already living hand to mouth, how can you argue with more hands feeding your mouth. If you work for government or government derived work, how can you argue with more job opportunities.

Or if you live in a remote area with poor health coverage, or don't have a family doctor, or want your kids to be able to attend post-secondary, etc., etc.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

As it should, because the CPC best represent me continuing my standard of living.

Because that's all that matters, right?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Wait, you're in Calgary, and you're voting Conservative?

The room is spinning...whoa...hold me...

(Not making fun of you specifically, just the fact that it's really pointless to have a debate amongst Albertans as a minimum 26 of 28 seats are going Conservative, regardless of any discussion that's taken place in this thread.)

Meh, I live in Ontario and recall when the NDP won a majority in the provincial government. No one thought that it could happen then either. If you are from Ontario, you know what a disaster that turned out to be. I don't think that an NDP government will be detrimental for just the West. Layton will screw everyone over except for the unemployed. We get what we deserve, I guess...

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Laugh so much baseless fear mongering going on right now.

Just like 'our fair share' was baseless fear mongering as well?

People's lives depend on these things. It's certainly fair to point out the history of the East raping the wealth of the West to protect their livelihood, and the written proposals in the NDP platform to do exactly that are not based on fantasy.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Just like 'our fair share' was baseless fear mongering as well?

People's lives depend on these things. It's certainly fair to point out the history of the East raping the wealth of the West to protect their livelihood, and the written proposals in the NDP platform to do exactly that are not based on fantasy.

Do Albertans honestly expect to ride the tarsands gravy train forever without any kind of consequences? I'm actually in favour of tarsands production but there is a need to start weening onto other viable economic sources.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Just like 'our fair share' was baseless fear mongering as well?

People's lives depend on these things. It's certainly fair to point out the history of the East raping the wealth of the West to protect their livelihood, and the written proposals in the NDP platform to do exactly that are not based on fantasy.

Interesting. What page in their proposal is that on?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Or if you live in a remote area with poor health coverage, or don't have a family doctor, or want your kids to be able to attend post-secondary, etc., etc.

People like me are going to get hammered in the revenue category in much more of a meaningful way than reducing the costs of the above items.

I don't necessarily see the need to vote NDP when these are things we already subsidize to a great extent. We already have socialized health care, we already have subsidized tuition that covers well over 80% of the true cost of a post-secondary education. I'd rather my children have thriving industries that can hire them than increasing the subsidies to those things.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Do Albertans honestly expect to ride the tarsands gravy train forever without any kind of consequences? I'm actually in favour of tarsands production but there is a need to start weening onto other viable economic sources.

Theres 100+ years of oil up here, are we supposed to sit on it indefinitely? I'd love to hear about these other viable economic sources.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Interesting. What page in their proposal is that on?

All throughout. Huge cap and trade tax will be disproportionately borne by Western Canada (unconstitutional but they'd love to try). Direct attack on oil business (and oil business alone) accounting practices will disproportionately be borne by the West.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

People like me are going to get hammered in the revenue category in much more of a meaningful way than reducing the costs of the above items.

I don't necessarily see the need to vote NDP when these are things we already subsidize to a great extent. We already have socialized health care, we already have subsidized tuition that covers well over 80% of the true cost of a post-secondary education. I'd rather my children have thriving industries that can hire them than increasing the subsidies to those things.

Socialized health care means very little when you can't find a family doctor, or live in a remote area where doctors won't work. Tuition costs are skyrocketing and the number of people leaving university with massive amounts of personal debt is staggering. In an economy that basically demands post-secondary education for even a mid-level job, this seems unsustainable.

[The Goon]

Wait, are people really having a discussion about what they're going to do if Jack Layton becomes PM? As in, you're seriously worried that this is a possibility?

Come on, now. Give your heads a shake. It's fun to pretend, but we all know that's not going to happen.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Theres 100+ years of oil up here, are we supposed to sit on it indefinitely? I'd love to hear about these other viable economic sources.

I agree it needs to be produced, and I'd actually like to see Canada rely more on domestic oil than OPEC, but the cost on the environment needs to be weighed as well.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Socialized health care means very little when you can't find a family doctor, or live in a remote area where doctors won't work. Tuition costs are skyrocketing and the number of people leaving university with massive amounts of personal debt is staggering. In an economy that basically demands post-secondary education for even a mid-level job, this seems unsustainable.

Tuition is not skyrocketing, it's still insanely cheap compared to many places in the world and considering the quality of the educatino we should be lucky.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Layton will screw everyone over except for the unemployed.

That's good news, because we're all going to be unemployed.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Do Albertans honestly expect to ride the tarsands gravy train forever without any kind of consequences? I'm actually in favour of tarsands production but there is a need to start weening onto other viable economic sources.

The mere fact you call them the "tarsands" tells me everything I need to know about your political leanings.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Tuition is not skyrocketing, it's still insanely cheap compared to many places in the world and considering the quality of the educatino we should be lucky.

According to the federation, student debt in Canada is estimated at $20 billion across the country and is increasing by about $1.5 million per day.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...nts-rally.html

[evman150]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

People's lives depend on these things.

Are people's "lives" really in the balance here? Or is it something else?

In this thread you have shown a commitment to using important terms very loosely in order to fit your world view. Such a rhetorical practice is detrimental to any meaningful discussion.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Or if you live in a remote area with poor health coverage, or don't have a family doctor, or want your kids to be able to attend post-secondary, etc., etc.

This part is what really gets me. The federal government shouldn't have to be footing the bill so that kids can attend post secondary education. There are all kinds of ways that people can manage this as it is. In Ontario, we have OSAP (Ontario Student Assistance Program) which provides students with loans (got that? loans, as in, you have to pay them back one day). I'm sure other provinces have similar programs available to them. Additionally, there is also this thing called, "getting a job". My experience has shown that that is pretty helpful for saving up for post secondary education. When I was 14, I got a part time job at McDonald's and by the time I was 16, I had saved up enough to pay for my first year of university. By the time I was 18, I had enough to pay for two years. Summer jobs and a 1 year internship meant I could pay everything up front without even needing a loan. But yeah, why teach people any sort of responsibility when the government can just pay their way for them. Absolutely disgusting.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

The mere fact you call them the "tarsands" tells me everything I need to know about your political leanings.

Nice straw man.