The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

We were also lucky to have corporate support, luxury boxes and 3000 more fans per game than Winnipeg, even in our worst years.

Back then the Flames did not have a tonne of luxury boxes (i.e. renovations happened after)... As for 3000 more fans I doubt that is true...

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

What are you even trying to argue here??

You can't be this thick.

You are saying the problems with the franchise stemmed from an owner who was cheap, and somehow Hulsizer is the Coyotes' golden ticket to a spending on players and operations.

afc is making an excellent point that Hulsizer hasn't proven himself to be some big spender, especially when you consider he refuses to put up his own money for the team, or modify the deal in any way to make it legally viable for the sale to proceed.

All of us here could buy an NHL team if someone else paid for it. Operational costs are a whole different story.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

He'll spend his money on operations, marketing, player salaries and absorbing losses for a few years. Nice try

Actually, the taxpayers of Phoenix will be paying for the operational losses...that 100 million should be burned through in 4 years max.

after that, he'll either hold the city at ransom <again> or move the team or sell for a profit.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

afc is making an excellent point that Hulsizer hasn't proven himself to be some big spender, especially when you consider he refuses to put up his own money for the team, or modify the deal in any way to make it legally viable for the sale to proceed.

Yup. If the Coyotes were such a sound investment, either Hulsizer would a) be putting more of his own money into it or b) would have little difficulty rounding up additional investors to foot the bill.

I have yet to see a) or b) materialize.

[pylon]

Wow, seriously bouw.... you need help.

You realize, only 28,000 people from YOUR OWN CITY, tuned in to to watch that team play a playoff game right? More people in Regina probably watched that game. Phoenix fans SUCK, do not care on iota about that team, and should be ashamed of themselves. They won't even turnon their TV's to watch the team for gods sake, let alone show up. Maybe if they handed out a free early bird special to Denny's or free pairs of Depend with tickets, then they might make some traction in that market.

Phoenix doesn't care.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by pylon

wow, seriously bouw.... You need help.

You realize, only 28,000 people from your own city, tuned in to to watch that team play a playoff game right? More people in regina probably watched that game. Phoenix fans suck, do not care on iota about that team, and should be ashamed of themselves. They won't even turnon their tv's to watch the team for gods sake, let alone show up. Maybe if they handed out a free early bird special to denny's or free pairs of depend with tickets, then they might make some traction in that market.

Phoenix doesn't care.

ohhhh caaanaadeeeerrrrppp

[getbak]

Originally Posted by flambers

Back then the Flames did not have a tonne of luxury boxes (i.e. renovations happened after)... As for 3000 more fans I doubt that is true...

The Saddledome was renovated in time for the 1995-96 season, so the luxury boxes and club seats were certainly in place for the Flames' worst years.

Also, the Flames average annual attendance has never been below 15,000 per game (and has only dipped below 16,000 twice). The Jets consistently averaged in the 13,000 range.

[oldschoolcalgary]

well team has been on the market essentially for 3 years. and not one viable deal has materialized. sure a few tire kickers here and there...

there's a reason why there's been no legitimate buyer (ie buyers willing to pony up all the cash); it's the NHL insistence that the team remains in Phoenix.

No one with any business acumen thinks this team is viable on its own - that's the reason for all the subsidies, kick backs and tax breaks.

The City of Phoenix is desperate to keep the team, because otherwise, their brand new arena will sit vacant...which is even worse financially and a career killer in political optics.

but by all means, continue throwing away good money after bad...

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

What are you even trying to argue here??

This isn't that difficult.

Current problem: Cheap owner, bad arena location (bad attendance)
Solution: Find even cheaper owner, arena still in a bad location
Expectation of solution: Owner spends more money

Are you really struggling with this?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

This isn't that difficult.

Current problem: Cheap owner, bad arena location (bad attendance)
Solution: Find even cheaper owner, arena still in a bad location
Expectation of solution: Owner spends more money

Are you really struggling with this?

-It's not cheap owner.. Jerry Moyes with purpose ran this team bankrupt.. period.
-Arena location isn't ideal, but the effect of that is greatly exaggerated, who drives 35 minutes each way to 1) watch a perennial loser and 2) a team with no certain future?
-Owner will run the business properly, create a product that people will get attached to and support regardless of arena location

These are fundamentals that so many people outside of this market DO NOT and will probably NEVER understand

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

ohhhh caaanaadeeeerrrrppp

lol what?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

ohhhh caaanaadeeeerrrrppp

Yeah, we have it so bad up here...lol.

Anyway, I am done trying to reason with you. I am going to go back to looking at vacation homes, next door to you, that I can buy on my Visa card.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

-It's not cheap owner.. Jerry Moyes with purpose ran this team bankrupt.. period.
-Arena location isn't ideal, but the effect of that is greatly exaggerated, who drives 35 minutes each way to 1) watch a perennial loser and 2) a team with no certain future?
-Owner will run the business properly, create a product that people will get attached to and support regardless of arena location

These are fundamentals that so many people outside of this market DO NOT and will probably NEVER understand

Ok and how do you come to that conclusion?

Net gain/loss = revenue - expenses

So are you increasing revenue, or decreasing expenses? How is this business going to be run properly so that they are now going to be profitable by tens of millions of dollars now?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by pylon

Wow, seriously bouw.... you need help.

You realize, only 28,000 people from YOUR OWN CITY, tuned in to to watch that team play a playoff game right? More people in Regina probably watched that game. Phoenix fans SUCK, do not care on iota about that team, and should be ashamed of themselves. They won't even turnon their TV's to watch the team for gods sake, let alone show up. Maybe if they handed out a free early bird special to Denny's or free pairs of Depend with tickets, then they might make some traction in that market.

Phoenix doesn't care.

Phoenix fans don't suck, they just don't like hockey, they didn't like hockey before the Yotes arrived and they won't like hockey after it has left, it just isn't much of a sports town, to much else to do, lousy demographics (a city full of people from other cities, retirees and hispanics).

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

-It's not cheap owner.. Jerry Moyes with purpose ran this team bankrupt.. period.
-Arena location isn't ideal, but the effect of that is greatly exaggerated, who drives 35 minutes each way to 1) watch a perennial loser and 2) a team with no certain future?
-Owner will run the business properly, create a product that people will get attached to and support regardless of arena location

These are fundamentals that so many people outside of this market DO NOT and will probably NEVER understand

I understand one thing, what incentive does Hulsizer have to run the team properly if he has no money invested in it?

If you want an owner commited to making a business work then make him put his own money on the line.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

-It's not cheap owner.. Jerry Moyes with purpose ran this team bankrupt.. period.
-Arena location isn't ideal, but the effect of that is greatly exaggerated, who drives 35 minutes each way to 1) watch a perennial loser and 2) a team with no certain future?
-Owner will run the business properly, create a product that people will get attached to and support regardless of arena location

These are fundamentals that so many people outside of this market DO NOT and will probably NEVER understand

explain years of Arizona Cardinal football

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

-It's not cheap owner.. Jerry Moyes with purpose ran this team bankrupt.. period.
-Arena location isn't ideal, but the effect of that is greatly exaggerated, who drives 35 minutes each way to 1) watch a perennial loser and 2) a team with no certain future?
-Owner will run the business properly, create a product that people will get attached to and support regardless of arena location

These are fundamentals that so many people outside of this market DO NOT and will probably NEVER understand

Real fans? I did it regularly in the young gun days, and the future was bleak. Ottawa doesn't sell out every night, but they have a similar drive, and always are putting butts in seats.

And what is this perennial loser bs? You guys have had playoff hockey 2 years straight? And the attendance is getting worse? What do the fans expect, a Stanley Cup every season?

Phoenix fans suck.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by flambers

Back then the Flames did not have a tonne of luxury boxes (i.e. renovations happened after)... As for 3000 more fans I doubt that is true...

The Dome was built with 31 boxes, and added 41 more in 1994/95. So yes, the Flames had a ton of luxury boxes throughout our darkest years.

And doubt the attendance all you want, the Flames worst year was 1999-00, at 14,946. Second worst was 01-02 at 15,705, and every other year of our non-playoff seasons between 16,200 and 17,089. Winnipeg's high water mark was 13,620 in 1984-85, and they averaged below 13k for 8 of their 17 seasons in the NHL.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

-It's not cheap owner.. Jerry Moyes with purpose ran this team bankrupt.. period.
-Arena location isn't ideal, but the effect of that is greatly exaggerated, who drives 35 minutes each way to 1) watch a perennial loser and 2) a team with no certain future?
-Owner will run the business properly, create a product that people will get attached to and support regardless of arena location

These are fundamentals that so many people outside of this market DO NOT and will probably NEVER understand

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Ok and how do you come to that conclusion?

Net gain/loss = revenue - expenses

So are you increasing revenue, or decreasing expenses? How is this business going to be run properly so that they are now going to be profitable by tens of millions of dollars now?

Well, solution? You know, since we're all so stupid and dumb.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Worst case scenario for Glendale is they pay $25 million to cover the team's losses in 2011-12 and we're back here again at this time next year.