CBE to trim 200-250 jobs

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I've got an assumption based on evidence... you work like a dog in the private world, and here you are arguing with a bunch of strangers about how easy teachers have it in the middle of a weekday.

I also work in the corporate world, and it's a cakewalk every day. I've also worked as a teacher, and it wasn't.

Regarding all the "time off" teachers get, you realize of course that their business has shut down and they don't have any customers when they get holidays and summers off, and they get paid for 9 months a year.

There are no students. Would you be happier to pay them to show up for work when there are no students?

First of all, teachers get paid 12 months a year. And I'm not saying they get 9 months of pay divided out over 12 months - I'm saying they get 12 months of pay for 9 months of work. That's a fantastic deal.

As for it being hard to find a job right now, welcome to the real world. Teaching is probably one of few degrees that comes with an automatic interview in the first place, so if you're exceptional that's a great opportunity to get noticed.

I should also clarify that I don't think every aspect of teaching is easy. I thought I did that a couple pages ago when I said chaperoning a field trip looked very hard, but maybe I didn't go far enough. Of course there are challenges, but there are with every job so that's a wash to me.

The difference is teachers get paid well, have a lifetime of security with their amazing pension, and have more time off than every other position in our society. I don't begrudge them that - I want my kids to be teachers - but I do begrudge complaints about it and especially dishonesty about how great the benefits package is (like when yeahbaby said they get 1.5 months off per year...that's just a lie).

What do I do for a living? That's a fair question. I have an English degree and was in the corporate world in marketing/investor relations role for 5 years. Great company and great job, but I didn't see it or most corporate jobs as offering enough personal time or flexibility. Now I own my own business and have a way more flexible schedule. I don't have as much time off as a teacher (I take 1/3 of the time off they get), but in five years I plan to go to a four-day work week, and I want to be wintering in Arizona or California by 55.

Why do I care about teachers' compensation then since I have no vested interest? I think more than anything I'd just like them to acknowledge they are compensated very well and to know 3 months of paid vacation time is pay they receive from the taxes of people that work many weeks more per year than they do. The teacher from Toronto who posted on the previous page gave a very satisfying take on things to me. I don't get why more teachers don't look at things like him...you guys have benefits that would be impossible to get anywhere else so quit complaining about them to people who quite likely have it worse.

P.S. As I said, this post was typed with my iPhone so please go easy on typos/mistakes lol.

[Eric Vail]

I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps this statistics has been thrown out before. 50% of first year teachers quit the profession within the first five years of their career. If it was such a cushy, easy job, why can't more make it work?

[oilyfan]

Maybe because too many teachers are graduating and not enough jobs?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by bcb

I feel terrible for teachers who are graduating from U of C this year. Interestingly, I noticed on the U of C website the application deadline to enter the B.Ed program next year has been extended two months. Something tells me people are now seeing the writing on the wall.

The nice thing is that this is all cyclical. In a couple of years, (hopefully) funding should be restored and they'll be hiring teachers again with the same gusto they were four years ago. Hang in there.

Feel bad for the U of A grads too!

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps this statistics has been thrown out before. 50% of first year teachers quit the profession within the first five years of their career. If it was such a cushy, easy job, why can't more make it work?

Not only was the stat thrown out, debated, chewed up and thrown out again with a couple other numbers, an answer to your question was given, too.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by Sliver

First of all, teachers get paid 12 months a year. And I'm not saying they get 9 months of pay divided out over 12 months - I'm saying they get 12 months of pay for 9 months of work. That's a fantastic deal.

.

Are you aware that teachers get to school at 7 am start supervision or getting everything ready for their students. Work through their lunch break 2-3 times per week. Go home at 4 if they aren't helping out with extra curricular activities that you don't get paid extra for. They then get home and have to grade papers, create day plans, go out and purchase little "prizes" for your kids when they do stuff well to keep them interested. Write up report cards (at least this is now electronic now starting a couple years ago but lots of problems with buggy software or computer knowledge for the older teacher crowd). They do this for 9 months out of a year. Now since you own your own buisness I am sure you also work more then an 8 hour shift but most people don't realize teachers work 10-12 hours a day the majority of those 9 months of work.

Let alone the stress of dealing with kids who have absolutly no respect for authority figures now a days and trying to deal with parents who can't get it through their heads that their child is not an angel and may have problems with the work/social/learning aspects of going to school.

Sure their are perks like needing to take leaves of absenses but that comes with being in a union.

Another example of everything is not that rosey as a teacher say your kid is an exceptional athlete and made the national championships. And that happens to fall on a weekday teachers have to pay out of their own pocket to take that day off.

Teachers also agree to contracts that say they will be getting a certain percentage of raises yet teachers are always the first to have their contracts voided and no raises given and it is out of their control

This is all from my views of my mom who is now a retired teacher and what she went through everyday of my life as far as I can remember.

1 more note lots of people who work for oil companies get 6 weeks vacation plus flex days that works out to be almost 2 months off each year

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Whenever salaries and benefits come up, I think that the oil & gas people downtown should not be included in any comparisons aside from with other oil & gas (especially people at providers). That industry is so out of whack compared to everything else.

Starting vacations and time off for most jobs outside of oil & gas are 2 to 3 weeks with minimal (if any) flex days. Starting teacher salaries here in Alberta are quite a bit higher than other starting salaries but the cap is also lower than other professions.

The O&G jobs are available. If you're a job seeker, then they are a very viable source of employment.

So you want to remove them because they make your argument look bad?

I have no idea why Sliver gets such a hate on for teachers.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Why do I care about teachers' compensation then since I have no vested interest? I think more than anything I'd just like them to acknowledge they are compensated very well and to know 3 months of paid vacation time is pay they receive from the taxes of people that work many weeks more per year than they do. The teacher from Toronto who posted on the previous page gave a very satisfying take on things to me. I don't get why more teachers don't look at things like him...you guys have benefits that would be impossible to get anywhere else so quit complaining about them to people who quite likely have it worse.

Good Lord.

If your well-being is predicated on other people telling you what you consider the truth then you're not going to be satisfied.

Jesus, wait till you hear the BS from clients now that you're self-employed. Good luck with trying to get paid.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps this statistics has been thrown out before. 50% of first year teachers quit the profession within the first five years of their career. If it was such a cushy, easy job, why can't more make it work?

Yeah, we haven't seen that backed up anywhere with evidence...just annecdotal stories and assumptions. Not to mention if it's going to have any meaning it has to be compared against how many non-teachers stay at the job they were trained for within the first five years of their employment to see if it's better or worse for teachers.

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Are you aware that teachers get to school at 7 am start supervision or getting everything ready for their students. Work through their lunch break 2-3 times per week. Go home at 4 if they aren't helping out with extra curricular activities that you don't get paid extra for. They then get home and have to grade papers, create day plans, go out and purchase little "prizes" for your kids when they do stuff well to keep them interested. Write up report cards (at least this is now electronic now starting a couple years ago but lots of problems with buggy software or computer knowledge for the older teacher crowd). They do this for 9 months out of a year. Now since you own your own buisness I am sure you also work more then an 8 hour shift but most people don't realize teachers work 10-12 hours a day the majority of those 9 months of work.

For sure a lot do, and maybe that's even the norm. An eight-hour day is tough to find in other fields as well though, so I look at that as a wash.

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Let alone the stress of dealing with kids who have absolutly no respect for authority figures now a days and trying to deal with parents who can't get it through their heads that their child is not an angel and may have problems with the work/social/learning aspects of going to school.

Yes there are really hard parts of the job, like any job. I don't think they're getting paid to do nothing...they definitely have to work hard 3/4 of the year. I don't mean that as an insult or anything; they just do work 75% of the year.

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Sure their are perks like needing to take leaves of absenses but that comes with being in a union.

Another example of everything is not that rosey as a teacher say your kid is an exceptional athlete and made the national championships. And that happens to fall on a weekday teachers have to pay out of their own pocket to take that day off.

That's a little misleading, I think. My understanding is they still get paid for that day - they are on salary after all. They have to pay the sub out of the money they get paid for not being there. What they're out of pocket is really the net difference between what they earned even though they weren't there and what they paid to the sub, which seems really fair. I can't imagine it's much, but maybe somebody will be able to put a number there. It wouldn't be right at all if the school board had to pay for two teachers to be teaching when only one was present.

In the private sector an employee has to make sacrifices to leave during the work day, whether it is an unpaid day off (hourly/contract people) or through the use of a holiday day for many others.

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Teachers also agree to contracts that say they will be getting a certain percentage of raises yet teachers are always the first to have their contracts voided and no raises given and it is out of their control

This is all from my views of my mom who is now a retired teacher and what she went through everyday of my life as far as I can remember.

1 more note lots of people who work for oil companies get 6 weeks vacation plus flex days that works out to be almost 2 months off each year

I kind of address my opinion on this in my response to Shazam below.

Originally Posted by Shazam

The O&G jobs are available. If you're a job seeker, then they are a very viable source of employment.

So you want to remove them because they make your argument look bad?

No, Encana is an exception and it's misleading to compare the time off teachers get - three months being the norm for every single one of them - to the best example in the private sector, which is still less than teachers. It's way more fair to the argument to compare the time off teachers get to the average in the private sector, which is way less than the Encana example.

Originally Posted by Shazam

I have no idea why Sliver gets such a hate on for teachers.

I don't hate teachers at all. I hate when they complain about being undercomensated when they're not. They have a very good deal...it's bizarre they don't appreciate it.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Sliver

They have a very good deal...it's bizarre they don't appreciate it.

They, they, they...

Don't generalize, it makes you sound stupid despite your multiple-quote replies.

I hate when know-it-alls generalize, THEY are uninformed, THEY think THEY know everything, when really, THEY just come off as ignorant. THEY.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Sliver

First of all, teachers get paid 12 months a year. And I'm not saying they get 9 months of pay divided out over 12 months - I'm saying they get 12 months of pay for 9 months of work. That's a fantastic deal.

Not true. Their salary is based on 10 months of work. A portion of their pay is held back each month and given in an extra cheque at the beginning of summer so they have some money over the break.

Also, the wage increase in the current contract isn't based on inflation, it's based on the Alberta average salary increase (so basically they're getting the same raise as most other people in the province, just a year behind).

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

They, they, they...

Don't generalize, it makes you sound stupid despite your multiple-quote replies.

I hate when know-it-alls generalize, THEY are uninformed, THEY think THEY know everything, when really, THEY just come off as ignorant. THEY.

What's the alternative? I've excused teachers like the one from Toronto. When I say "they" I'm referring to the teachers that don't think their compensation is fair.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't hate teachers at all. I hate when they complain about being undercomensated when they're not. They have a very good deal...it's bizarre they don't appreciate it.

The complaint here isn't about money. It's about layoffs. (See thread title.)

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Are you aware that teachers get to school at 7 am start supervision or getting everything ready for their students. Work through their lunch break 2-3 times per week. Go home at 4 if they aren't helping out with extra curricular activities that you don't get paid extra for. They then get home and have to grade papers, create day plans, go out and purchase little "prizes" for your kids when they do stuff well to keep them interested. Write up report cards (at least this is now electronic now starting a couple years ago but lots of problems with buggy software or computer knowledge for the older teacher crowd). They do this for 9 months out of a year. Now since you own your own buisness I am sure you also work more then an 8 hour shift but most people don't realize teachers work 10-12 hours a day the majority of those 9 months of work.

Let alone the stress of dealing with kids who have absolutly no respect for authority figures now a days and trying to deal with parents who can't get it through their heads that their child is not an angel and may have problems with the work/social/learning aspects of going to school.

Sure their are perks like needing to take leaves of absenses but that comes with being in a union.

Another example of everything is not that rosey as a teacher say your kid is an exceptional athlete and made the national championships. And that happens to fall on a weekday teachers have to pay out of their own pocket to take that day off.

Teachers also agree to contracts that say they will be getting a certain percentage of raises yet teachers are always the first to have their contracts voided and no raises given and it is out of their control

This is all from my views of my mom who is now a retired teacher and what she went through everyday of my life as far as I can remember.

1 more note lots of people who work for oil companies get 6 weeks vacation plus flex days that works out to be almost 2 months off each year

No matter what you tell this dude, he is not going to have any kind of an open mind. All he sees are over paid people who get way more vacation than everyone else. He wont believe anyone when they say they work upwards to 10-20 hours a week extra on their own time at home. He doesn't except the fact that many teachers to extra activity such as coaching, music lessons and what not that they don't get paid for.

He thinks it is the best gig in the world yet I don't see him getting his teaching degree so he can cash in.

He is a closed minded person.

[Sliver]

I know, but the conversation morphed this way. I can agree to disagree on this if you guys want.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by bcb

I feel terrible for teachers who are graduating from U of C this year. Interestingly, I noticed on the U of C website the application deadline to enter the B.Ed program next year has been extended two months. Something tells me people are now seeing the writing on the wall.

The nice thing is that this is all cyclical. In a couple of years, (hopefully) funding should be restored and they'll be hiring teachers again with the same gusto they were four years ago. Hang in there.

Yeah, that lag time really hurts. Start the program two years ago when everything is nice and rosy, come out of it and it is a wasteland for jobs.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Sliver

For sure a lot do, and maybe that's even the norm. An eight-hour day is tough to find in other fields as well though, so I look at that as a wash.

Ya, a lot of places now have 7.5 hour days or 7 hour days and those that don't get paid over time and bonuses. Get over it already, you sound like a fool.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

No matter what you tell this dude, he is not going to have any kind of an open mind. All he sees are over paid people who get way more vacation than everyone else. He wont believe anyone when they say they work upwards to 10-20 hours a week extra on their own time at home. He doesn't except the fact that many teachers to extra activity such as coaching, music lessons and what not that they don't get paid for.

He thinks it is the best gig in the world yet I don't see him getting his teaching degree so he can cash in.

He is a closed minded person.

Ahh, I'm in the room.

I believe all that stuff. I know some of them sometimes work beyond an 8 hour day. That's not unique to being a teacher...I'd say most jobs require something beyond the bare minimum.

Teaching is a great gig. If somebody thought I had a great gig, I'd say thanks. I'm kind of kidding here, because I know my tone isn't super complimentary, but really I don't understand why more teachers aren't in this thread defending how great their job is and what a great life decision they made to enter the profession.

You said I should quit my job and become a teacher if I think it's so great. I've given good reasons why I won't (too old, mortgage, etc.). I will encourage my kids to be teachers, so that's fairly strong support for believing what I'm saying.

I could also turn that around and say to the teachers - if it's so bad, why don't you quit? I guess there's some stuff you like about the job and I'd bet dollars to donuts the time off would rank very high up on your list as to why it's a good job.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ya, a lot of places now have 7.5 hour days or 7 hour days and those that don't get paid over time and bonuses. Get over it already, you sound like a fool.

I would love to hear from the people on this board that work a seven hour day and get six weeks off a year with paid OT and bonuses. Do you really believe that's normal in the business world? Maybe there are a handful of exceptions, but come on.

[fundmark19]

silver its funny you tell people to become teachers and my mom tells people to not become teachers because the job isn't actually like what everyone thinks and the schooling doesn't prepare you for it either