The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Bettman said something interesting about the gift clause in Arizona yesterday. A city government can't gift money to a private enterprise, where there is no commensurate consideration coming back.

COG would argue that the consideration coming back is tax revenues, parking, jobs etc. GI would argue that there is no reason Glendale would not generate revenues from new sources if the Coyotes left.

I don't believe the city can count alot of those 'revenues' as they are potential rather than guarenteed, in order to not break the law the city has to show a certain return that covers the bond issue, the law is clear, no matter how good an idea it is the city cannot loan a private company money unless it is guarenteed to get it back.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by troutman

If team goes to WIN, Bettman would still want to locate a team in Phoenix.

WTF?

[FlameFan]

Originally Posted by troutman

I will do what I want. Taylor has sources inside True North. Do you?

His reporting on this topic has been far more reliable than anyone out of Toronto.

personally speaking, as a past Winnipegger, and an ex Jets fan, I am really thankful that you're posting these.

Thanks muchly.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

WTF?

substitute WIN with Winnipeg

[Northendzone]

i dislike teflon gary as much as the next fella; however, i gotta give him some props for the fact that he always remains calm in an interview (as far as i can recall) and he seemingly has an answer for almost everything - seems like a bit of a contrast to colly coming unglued the other day 'cause he can't figure out how to get the wheel of justice to stop in the right place.....

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I wonder if the Eastern teams would oppose such a move based on the Wings dominance for so long in the tougher Western Conference? The Eastern teams would probably beg for Columbous to be moved to the Eastern Conference.

Haha I could see it. But it's a money game and it all boils down to that. Detroit is a bigger draw than Atlanta/Columbus so I'm sure the Eastern teams (the ones that don't already sellout) would be stoked for the extra revenue.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by troutman

If team goes to WIN, Bettman would still want to locate a team in Phoenix.

Originally Posted by calgaryred

substitute WIN with Winnipeg

Not sure if serious. It was the bolded part that the WTF was directed at. Moving a failing franchise to immediately place another franchise there. To, you know. Fail.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Not sure if serious. It was the bolded part that the WTF was directed at. Moving a failing franchise to immediately place another franchise there. To, you know. Fail.

Yes, but Garys a lawyer and is all about precedent, which the move back to Winnipeg establishes.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Not sure if serious. It was the bolded part that the WTF was directed at. Moving a failing franchise to immediately place another franchise there. To, you know. Fail.

There's Something About Market

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Not sure if serious. It was the bolded part that the WTF was directed at. Moving a failing franchise to immediately place another franchise there. To, you know. Fail.

There are steps that the NHL could take to make the Phoenix market more viable for the NHL. They could endorse a minor hockey, try to help more rinks be built for public use and, perhaps most importantly, get second hand hockey equipment down to Phoenix or in some other way lower the cost of playing hockey.

Some solid grass roots programs along these lines could help butter the locals up for the next time the NHL tries to brute-force a franchise into a southern market.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Covering up to $25M of their losses, which supposedly isn't enough.

Nonetheless, that is $25 million the BOG aren't responsible for. Any further losses, I suspect, the other owners will view as the cost of saving their ability to control franchise relocations.

But, I can't see this dragging into next year without a similar guarantee from Glendale. Lacking another such promise to cover losses, the Coyotes will have a new owner by the draft - whomever and wherever they may be.

[Joborule]

What Phoenix needs ultimately is a team that actually wins and make the playoffs consistently enough (and get into the second round while there at it). No one is gonna love a loser, and that's what the Coyotes have been and why they're in this situation currently. No amount of grassroot development is gonna be effective if the NHL club doesn't give the market a reason to buy tickets. Who wants to watch them lose, even if you have an interest in hockey already developed?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What Phoenix needs ultimately is a team that actually wins and make the playoffs consistently enough (and get into the second round while there at it). No one is gonna love a loser, and that's what the Coyotes have been and why they're in this situation currently. No amount of grassroot development is gonna be effective if the NHL club doesn't give the market a reason to buy tickets. Who wants to watch them lose, even if you have an interest in hockey already developed?

Phoenix IS a winning team. Frankly, if what is required is a team that is a annual threat to win the Stanley Cup then they ought to move the team right now because I'm pretty sure the Detroit Red Wings aren't moving and they're the only ones that seem to be able to pull that off. Everyone else goes through ups and downs and if Phoenix can't or won't support it through the downs then I don't think it's a market that ought to have an NHL franchise.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What Phoenix needs ultimately is a team that actually wins and make the playoffs consistently enough (and get into the second round while there at it). No one is gonna love a loser, and that's what the Coyotes have been and why they're in this situation currently. No amount of grassroot development is gonna be effective if the NHL club doesn't give the market a reason to buy tickets. Who wants to watch them lose, even if you have an interest in hockey already developed?

You think? Because Edmoton sells tickets, and they were eliminated from the playoffs before the season even started.

Interest in hockey counts for something.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

You think? Because Edmoton sells tickets, and they were eliminated from the playoffs before the season even started.

Interest in hockey counts for something.

And in the late 90's in Edmonton?

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Not sure if serious. It was the bolded part that the WTF was directed at. Moving a failing franchise to immediately place another franchise there. To, you know. Fail.

Isn't that what they're doing with Winnipeg?

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

And in the late 90's in Edmonton?

Edmonton fans staying away in the 90's was more to do with fans rebelling against an owner, then poor play.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What Phoenix needs ultimately is a team that actually wins and make the playoffs consistently enough (and get into the second round while there at it). No one is gonna love a loser, and that's what the Coyotes have been and why they're in this situation currently. No amount of grassroot development is gonna be effective if the NHL club doesn't give the market a reason to buy tickets. Who wants to watch them lose, even if you have an interest in hockey already developed?

Well, now you are just proposing a "chicken or the egg" question. In order to love a team and pay to watch them play the team has to be a winner but how do you get enough money to make a team a winner when they are consistently losing money and relying on Vancouver fans to cry about how they have to pay for the Coyotes to play.

I guess the NHL could try something like force Crosby to be traded to the Coyotes.

Realistically though, I think you have to start up with the grass roots program just so you can have a reasonable base of fans to start the team with. 2000 fans just doesn't cut it and I'm sure most of them are Canadians that are snowbirding down to Phoenix.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Nonetheless, that is $25 million the BOG aren't responsible for. Any further losses, I suspect, the other owners will view as the cost of saving their ability to control franchise relocations.

But, I can't see this dragging into next year without a similar guarantee from Glendale. Lacking another such promise to cover losses, the Coyotes will have a new owner by the draft - whomever and wherever they may be.

You would think the GI would be on this like a cat on spilled milk as this $25M, sure looks like a gift to me.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Phoenix IS a winning team. Frankly, if what is required is a team that is a annual threat to win the Stanley Cup then they ought to move the team right now because I'm pretty sure the Detroit Red Wings aren't moving and they're the only ones that seem to be able to pull that off. Everyone else goes through ups and downs and if Phoenix can't or won't support it through the downs then I don't think it's a market that ought to have an NHL franchise.

Phoenix has ALWAYS been in the downs, except maybe one year in the late 90s if I recall? They're now just getting into the playoffs when the franchise future is up in so much limbo. If the most news I hear about the Yotes is 'are they going or are they not', I'm not going to care to much about the club if I didn't have much of an interest in them in the first place during the regular season. That goes for a great percentage of the market down there.

The Coyotes need to get this resolved and show that they are sticking around for the time being so then the fanbase down there can showcase support to a winning club that isn't going to leave in a matter of months.

Originally Posted by bizaro86

You think? Because Edmoton sells tickets, and they were eliminated from the playoffs before the season even started.

Interest in hockey counts for something.

Oilers fanbase has been established over a period of 30 years and show signs of 'progress' in the future. How about you look at you very own Calgary Flames prior to the cup run? Fans don't come out to cheer for a team that just loses year in year out for a proloung period of time with nothing to look forward to in the near future. Unless your the Leafs or Habs, your days of sellouts and huge fan support are over if you were like the Flames during the Young Gunz era.