2011 Canadian Election Thread

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1993971/

From that article...

A spokesman for Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper said the government had not made such a decision about funding Planned Parenthood and that it had no desire to decide who to fund based on abortion issues.

“We have been crystal clear on this issue – we are not re-opening this debate,” said Dimitri Soudas.

Asked what Mr. Trost was talking about, Mr. Soudas responded: “That’s a good question. Brad Trost is a backbench MP.”

Again...one nutbar speaking out on his own beliefs doesn't make for specific policy.

I do understand that even hearing this kind of stuff is bothersome, it is to me as well. Again though, this is such a toxic issue NO ONE is going to re-visit it as a government. The supreme court has already ruled on this.

[Slava]

^ Unless they have a majority. In that case we get to see thse guys come out of the woodwork and push these agendas without fear of being forced to campaign on these divisive issues.

[calculoso]

Social Conservatism roots or merely a refusal to look in our own backyard rather than someone else's? This is for International Planned Parenthood, after all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Oh, Phew. The PMO denies this, so clearly its not true. Good thing that they've never gone back on their word before!

I do think its somewhat amusing that just in the last few days my saying that I had some concerns regarding the social conservative element of the party had all of the CPC apologists jumping down my throat here, and lo and behold within the week we get a public confirmation from the party itself (an elected MP afterall!).

Good to know that you guys won't let those facts get in the way of pressing for that majority though.

So who do you believe, the Prime Minister of the Country, or some unknown back bencher?

AS I've said before, there's no point in reopening the debate on abortion, or any other of the sensitive issues unless the Conservatives only want one more term in office followed by fringe party status.

And how can you say that a back bencher is public confirmation, when the leader of the party says he's basically full of crap?

It seems like selective judging to me.

[Flabbibulin]

What?! Planned Parenting may not be funded?!

Im getting my NDP voting pen! Forget the economy, national debt, foreign relations, health care and everthing else! This is outrageous!

Are we trained to get worked up in a fuss whenever this subject comes up, or do that many Canadians plan on getting a publiclly funded abortion in the next few years??

Use tax dollars to pay for these programs or dont. I wont change my vote one way or another...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ Unless they have a majority. In that case we get to see thse guys come out of the woodwork and push these agendas without fear of being forced to campaign on these divisive issues.

Even in a majority, it simply wont pass....they can table as many bills as they like about changing abortion laws and they will all fail. Even within the CPC there is no desire to re-visit the debate as there is nothing to gain from it and can only hurt them in the long run. Hell there was a vote during the Mulroney majority that got clobbered.

Honestly, this is a non-starter as far as issues go, regardless of what a backbencher I certainly had never heard of till now says. In order for this to have any legs you would have to believe that Harper is not speaking for the party and this Trost fellow is.

Again i will be the first in line to stand up against such laws if they were to be tabled, but I dont think thats going to be necessary. As stated by the court, this is a medical issue not a legal one.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Slava

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1993971/

The article said this was not part of the parties plans. This canadate just misspoke.

That being said defunding Planned Parenthood would be a great idea for several reasons:

Firstly, it is a provincal duty to decide the best use of medical funds. The Federal Government distributes money through transfer payments to the Provinces. They do this with a general guideline of how the money is to be spent and leave it to the Provinces to micro-manage.

Secondly, Part of what Planned Parenthood does is politically lobbying. Taxpayers money shouldn't be used to fund political lobbying.

Thirdly, Planned Parenthood contributes to the deaths of thousands of unborn babies. It is offensive that the Federal government goes out of the way to fund these killers. And they are going out of their way; Administration of health care is a Provincal matter.

[Slava]

I don't know who I'm voting for, but these kinds of attitudes give me concern. I don't see why we shouldn't trust his opinions; sure he's a back-bencher but of the governing party that is seeking a majority. Clearly in the middle of the campaign Harper isn't going to come out and say "yes, this is what we're going to do"...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The article said this was not part of the parties plans. This canadate just misspoke.

That being said defunding Planned Parenthood would be a great idea for several reasons:

Firstly, it is a provincal duty to decide the best use of medical funds. The Federal Government distributes money through transfer payments to the Provinces. They do this with a general guideline of how the money is to be spent and leave it to the Provinces to micro-manage.

Secondly, Part of what Planned Parenthood does is politically lobbying. Taxpayers money shouldn't be used to fund political lobbying.

Thirdly, Planned Parenthood contributes to the deaths of thousands of unborn babies. It is offensive that the Federal government goes out of the way to fund these killers. And they are going out of their way; Administration of health care is a Provincal matter.

Lame. They aren't "killers" they are medical professionals doing their jobs on women who have the legal right to control their bodies.

Its the law of the land. It is a medical matter as stated by the highest court, and the kind of rhetoric you spew is nothing the CPC wants any part of as their platform.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't know who I'm voting for, but these kinds of attitudes give me concern. I don't see why we shouldn't trust his opinions; sure he's a back-bencher but of the governing party that is seeking a majority. Clearly in the middle of the campaign Harper isn't going to come out and say "yes, this is what we're going to do"...

Obviously you are pro-abortion. Even so, why should the federal government fund an abortion provider? Isn't that a Provincal responsibility?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Obviously you are pro-abortion. Even so, why should the federal government fund an abortion provider? Isn't that a Provincal responsibility?

I think that's a fair question. Let's leave the religious aspect of this debate out of it.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Lame. They aren't "killers" they are medical professionals doing their jobs on women who have the legal right to control their bodies.

Its the law of the land. It is a medical matter as stated by the highest court, and the kind of rhetoric you spew is nothing the CPC wants any part of as their platform.

It is the law of the land so I didn't call them murderers. The fact is an abortion does kill a baby. It's a medical fact; not rhetoric.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Obviously you are pro-abortion. Even so, why should the federal government fund an abortion provider? Isn't that a Provincal responsibility?

No I'm not "pro-abortion" but thanks for the effort. My issue isn't even with this position. Its the idea that I just want a government who doesn't get involved in these issues and sticks with governing. If the CPC is going to press for this agenda, great: just campaign on it openly and I'll make my decision along with everyone else.

The idea that a decision on this has been discussed and potentially made, and trying to hide it during an election though wouldn't sit well with me, regardless of the party/position.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It is the law of the land so I didn't call them murderers. The fact is an abortion does kill a baby. It's a medical fact; not rhetoric.

Spin it how ever you like...its still rhetoric that does no one any good.

[Flabbibulin]

^^^ yes, this is about money and taxes, nothing else.

Abortion is legal and always will be. My contention as the average tax payer is I dont care if it is publicly funded or not. My taxes wont be going up or down by any significant amount either way.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Slava

No I'm not "pro-abortion" but thanks for the effort. My issue isn't even with this position. Its the idea that I just want a government who doesn't get involved in these issues and sticks with governing. If the CPC is going to press for this agenda, great: just campaign on it openly and I'll make my decision along with everyone else.

The idea that a decision on this has been discussed and potentially made, and trying to hide it during an election though wouldn't sit well with me, regardless of the party/position.

You've got no evidence a decision has been made. I would be suprised if it hadn't been discussed being as there was a petition.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't know who I'm voting for, but these kinds of attitudes give me concern. I don't see why we shouldn't trust his opinions; sure he's a back-bencher but of the governing party that is seeking a majority. Clearly in the middle of the campaign Harper isn't going to come out and say "yes, this is what we're going to do"...

Stop the charade, in this very thread you've debased NDP policy, called the Green party a protest vote party, and regularily chide CPC tactics and defend Liberal ones. Either you are playing Devil's Advocate to provide balance to the thread (Which I would venture not as you were a volunteering card carrying member of the Alberta Liberal Party, you'll brush this off in Ignatieff (A coalition isn't a coalition) fashion by saying that the Alberta Liberals are not officially affiliated with the federal ones) or you're supporting the Liberals and by claiming to be undecided you hope your opinions come acrosss as not being biased along partisan lines. Or if by undecided you mean in your head there is a choice of, spoiling your ballot, voting Liberal, or not voting.

I'll at least say out front that I intend to vote CPC on May 2nd.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You've got no evidence a decision has been made. I would be suprised if it hadn't been discussed being as there was a petition.

really? A member of the government stating that fact is "no evidence? You have got to be kidding!

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Spin it how ever you like...its still rhetoric that does no one any good.

Your the one that is spinning this. I'm just stating the facts. Maybe it will do no good but, I won't start treating the unborn as less than human to please you.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Your the one that is spinning this. I'm just stating the facts. Maybe it will do no good but, I won't start treating the unborn as less than human to please you.

Good for you. Campaign on that fact and if more people vote for you than people who vote for someone else and you can enact laws in accordance with those wishes.