The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[HermMunster]

Originally Posted by troutman

"It's curious why there are factors at play preventing the deal from getting done," Hulsizer representative Brad Goldberg said.

Is he suggesting that True North may be funding the Goldwater Institute...?

[troutman]

Midas touch unnecessary for Winnipeg to get Coyotes
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1987885/

Though Winnipeg is certainly not the preferred option of Bettman and the league's owners, all signs point to them finally moving on, acknowledging defeat, bidding adieu to Matthew Hulsizer and the Glendale municipal government, eating some crow, and heading back whence they came in those heady days when the NHL was outgrowing little Canadian markets.

Just to avoid confusion: the Coyotes won't be leaving because someone threatened to sue over a municipal bond issue which may or may not be legal under Arizona law. They will be leaving because of the single unassailable truth that has been lurking behind this entire exercise – there is no one on earth prepared to invest their own money to keep the team where it is because to do so would mean absorbing tens of millions of dollars in losses in perpetuity. And the reason that's the case is that there aren't enough people in the Phoenix area willing to spend enough money on big-league professional hockey as an entertainment option to make a franchise viable there.

In the end, grand strategies for NHL growth are irrelevant. So is the importance of Phoenix as a television market.

Somebody has to be willing to pay the bills. Nobody has, at least since Jerry Moyes took the Coyotes into bankruptcy. No one is willing in Kansas City, either, or in Las Vegas, or in any of those other fantasy destinations.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by HermMunster

Is he suggesting that True North may be funding the Goldwater Institute...?

Wouldn't that be something?

It would put the whole debacle into Robert Ludlum territory.

[troutman]

Goldwater chief proves worthy adversary
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1987773/

Darcy Olsen, the 39-year-old CEO of the Goldwater Institute, sees the Coyotes disaster in simple terms: If a legitimate hockey market existed in the Phoenix area, the Coyotes would work as a business.

“A lot of people would love to see the Coyotes stay but any buyer needs to buy the team with his own funds.”

Both Glendale and the NHL made the mistake of underestimating Olsen, who acts with the effectiveness of a lawyer without having a law degree. She earned a science degree from Georgetown and a master’s in international education from New York University before joining the Goldwater Institute 10 years ago.

Those familiar with the negotiations say Hulsizer feels blindsided by Goldwater’s intervention, and frustrated because Glendale officials long assured him the institute was not a serious threat to the deal.

[troutman]

Campbell: Coyotes closing in on move to Winnipeg
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-Winnipeg.html

A source with knowledge of the situation told THN.com a deal is basically done to move the Coyotes to Winnipeg and will be announced sometime between the end of the Stanley Cup final and the June 24 draft.

According to the source, the deal calls for the Coyotes to be sold to True North Sports and Entertainment for $140 million. It’s believed the deal will be announced at something north of $200 million, but that includes more than $60 million in renovations to add 2,500 seats to the MTS Centre in Winnipeg.

The source said the deal has not been signed, but there is a memorandum of agreement in place and that the deal will be signed when the NHL’s deal with Hulsizer officially dies.

Phil Lieberman, a Glendale councilor who has been vocal in his opposition to the deal and was one of two councilors who voted against it.

“I have talked to the Goldwater Institute and they don’t have a case until the bonds are actually sold,” Lieberman said. “There is no possible way, and I stand behind this publicly, that the 5,500 parking spots at $10 a night can pay the $7 million to $8 million a year that the debt service would require to cover the debt. It just can’t be done.”

“I want streets, I want sewers, I want gutters and I want cops,” Lieberman said. “Making sure that Hulsizer has a $20 million management fee, how does that provide the services to my 39,900 constituents?”

[troutman]

Sticky ticket frenzy
The hard part of NHL return will be the cost to fans

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/co.../18014986.html

I contacted 25, or about one-third, of the current luxury suite holders at MTS Centre, asking if they’d renew at NHL prices, believed to be triple the current rate.

No less than 17 of the 25 executives I reached said they’d renew at the higher cost. Three more said they’d stay involved, but have to reduce their investment by sharing the load more. Three more said they weren’t sure.

Just two of the 25 said they’d have to bail.

The bad news, ticket prices will likely be higher than we’ve been reporting, based on prices in Edmonton and Calgary, the most comparable markets.

Fans in Edmonton and Calgary have to be paying $100/game, on average.

I’m not saying tickets in Winnipeg would be as high.

But I can’t see the average being less than $75.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by troutman

Sticky ticket frenzy
The hard part of NHL return will be the cost to fans

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/co.../18014986.html

I contacted 25, or about one-third, of the current luxury suite holders at MTS Centre, asking if they’d renew at NHL prices, believed to be triple the current rate.

No less than 17 of the 25 executives I reached said they’d renew at the higher cost. Three more said they’d stay involved, but have to reduce their investment by sharing the load more. Three more said they weren’t sure.

Just two of the 25 said they’d have to bail.

The bad news, ticket prices will likely be higher than we’ve been reporting, based on prices in Edmonton and Calgary, the most comparable markets.

Fans in Edmonton and Calgary have to be paying $100/game, on average.

I’m not saying tickets in Winnipeg would be as high.

But I can’t see the average being less than $75.

Do we really though? As far as I'm concerned the average is inconsequential.

Almost the entire 2nd deck is at or under less than $100 per game in Calgary. STH's pay about $80 or so for whites, $60 for Orange and $40 for Greens.

Face value is about 100, 70 and 55 for those three areas respectively. Now the lower bowl might offset the prices because people are paying upwards of $200/ticket but realistically the average doesn't affect the average fan like me.

I can sit in the lower bowl for one game for the price of 1/6 of my entire season ticket package in the greens.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Do we really though? As far as I'm concerned the average is inconsequential.

The Oilers, for example, charge $37.50 at the door for their cheapest standing room ticket, $43 for the worst seat in the upper level, $95 for the best. Lower-bowl seats are $130-$251, depending on the opponent.

From what I could tell, season-ticket discounts can be as much as 40% off the walkup price.

Similar deal in Calgary: the worst upper-level seat this season was $34 at the door ($20 as a season ticket), the best upper-level seat $126 at the door ($94/game for the season).

Lower-bowl seats at the Saddledome start at $151 individually ($107 for the season) and peak at $235 ($162).

Add it all up, and fans in Edmonton and Calgary have to be paying $100/game, on average.

[Resolute 14]

According to TMR, The Flames average ticket price is $67, and the Oilers $65. That is for regular seats, excluding luxury suites and "premium seats", which based on TMR's definition, I would take to be things like the Executive club at the Saddledome.

http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.co...%202010-11.pdf

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

Add it all up, and fans in Edmonton and Calgary have to be paying $100/game, on average.

Another point to keep in mind is that Calgary averages $100 / seat on 19,000+ seats, whereas the Winnipeg case we're talking 15,000 seats.
I'm sure there's no shortage of people willing to fill the place for 42 nights at $50 / game, the question is do they have enough corporate/rich support to sell out the lower bowl at an average of $150 / ticket to make up for those paying less. They probably don't have to get to Calgary or Edmonton levels to survive long term (Because Calgary and Edmonton rank in the top 10 in the league in revenue), but I would argue they would need to at least be at Ottawa's average price to field a team above the cap minimum by enough of a margin to compete on the ice.

I agree with Scott Taylor's assesment that the novelty factor of having an NHL team back should keep them in the black for the first 3 or so years, afterwards they will need to win and build a following/buzz in the city to survive through any down economic cycles or serious $CAD decline.

[troutman]

Boomer is reporting there are still tickets available for the game in Phoenix tonight.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Another point to keep in mind is that Calgary averages $100 / seat on 19,000+ seats, whereas the Winnipeg case we're talking 15,000 seats.
I'm sure there's no shortage of people willing to fill the place for 42 nights at $50 / game, the question is do they have enough corporate/rich support to sell out the lower bowl at an average of $150 / ticket to make up for those paying less. They probably don't have to get to Calgary or Edmonton levels to survive long term (Because Calgary and Edmonton rank in the top 10 in the league in revenue), but I would argue they would need to at least be at Ottawa's average price to field a team above the cap minimum by enough of a margin to compete on the ice.

I agree with Scott Taylor's assesment that the novelty factor of having an NHL team back should keep them in the black for the first 3 or so years, afterwards they will need to win and build a following/buzz in the city to survive through any down economic cycles or serious $CAD decline.

I'm really interested in seeing how they add 2500 seats to that rink, and even if they do, they're still going to be really short on luxury boxes compared to other buildings in Canada.

I read a article once that stated that if Winnipeg got a team back and kept the seat count where its at now, and the luxury count where its at now, that the Jets would need to have the third highest payroll in the NHL just to break even.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Another point to keep in mind is that Calgary averages $100 / seat on 19,000+ seats, whereas the Winnipeg case we're talking 15,000 seats.
I'm sure there's no shortage of people willing to fill the place for 42 nights at $50 / game, the question is do they have enough corporate/rich support to sell out the lower bowl at an average of $150 / ticket to make up for those paying less. They probably don't have to get to Calgary or Edmonton levels to survive long term (Because Calgary and Edmonton rank in the top 10 in the league in revenue), but I would argue they would need to at least be at Ottawa's average price to field a team above the cap minimum by enough of a margin to compete on the ice.

Ticket prices would also be more expensive to consumers in Winnipeg than Calgary or Edmonton because they'd have to factor in the PST that Alberta doesn't have.

[afc wimbledon]

People keep bringing up the posibility of the dollar dropping again, it is unlikely to happen at all, let alone any time in the forseeable future, historically the canadian dollar has generally traded at around par or above, and with the US economy entering a long term decline if any thing the next few decades are likely to see the loonie hit 1.10 -1.30.

Not that this alone makes small market canadian cities viable, but the dollar isn't going to kill them.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by troutman

Boomer is reporting there are still tickets available for the game in Phoenix tonight.

Just checked out Ticketmaster. The interactive seat map shows only a scattering of tickets left, possibly under 100 but I didn't count them (which you can). It will be a sellout. Good on them, but it's not going to save the deal.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by JBR

Just checked out Ticketmaster. The interactive seat map shows only a scattering of tickets left, possibly under 100 but I didn't count them (which you can). It will be a sellout. Good on them, but it's not going to save the deal.

Glendale won't lose the team.. a deal will be done. They will just get bent over.

Going Wednesday.. have to work tonight. FFFUUUU!!!

[Scrollbar]

Fan 590 reporting today that Manitoba Jets and same color scheme from before is what will be the choice of name and colors.

This of course was followed by a huge sigh of relief from me, and I'm sure many other Jets fans.

Have fun at the game on Wednesday Bouw.. don't forget to wear white and cheer loud!

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Scrollbar

Fan 590 reporting

Reporting, or Kypreos "commenting/speculating/nothing confirmed/don't take this out of context" reporting?

[Chester]

Troutman, I just randomly thanked you for one of your posts. Your participation in this thread has been appreciated. This thread is one-stop shopping to keep up on this issue. Thx.

[Scrollbar]

second hand info i got from the jetsowner forum.