More police brutality

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Admittedly I'm no expert on tazers (tasers? I don't even know how to properly spell the word) but I've always thought there were two leads that shoot out of the tazer and electricity jots are given when the trigger is held down. I didn't think it's something that you could realistically "jump in front of" and if you got caught up in the leads wouldn't it be two people getting tazed instead of one?

If my father and I were out for a walk and a police officer told him to get on his knees and randomly tazed him I'd probably be frozen in shock, same situation as the library mentioned above. I'd argue it's an extreme situation that is completed unexpected due to the out of character actions of what the police are supposed to do.

It's not fair to me to comment how I'd react to a tazing having never seen one. I'd like to think that I'd be able to talk the situation down become it happened (provided I was involved of course).

I do think it's foolhardy to just get involved in others interactions with the police. If I did see someone in handcuffs and get tazed you can bet that I'll be filing a report.

As for the RCMP Polish man, if I saw that I probably would have incorrectly assumed he was a threat as why else would there be that many police officers trying to corner a guy? I can't go on the assumption that everyone the police are dealing with is innocent, and that the police are just trigger happy all the time.

To get back on topic, I think it's unrealistic to think that strangers in the library would jump in line of the tazer. If the situation you outlined above happened, you'd see more police called in (riot squad? swat team?) the situation would escalate and the police would win, they wouldn't reassess the situation apologies and back away slowly. I think the best thing for them to do would have been to call 9-1-1, record the incident via digital camera/cell phone, and tell them to stop as the suspect is already in handcuffs there's no need to taze him as that's excessive.

I dont necessarily disagree with anything you wrote. I also think its dangerous to assume that everyone whos being taken down by the cops are guilty and have whats coming to them.

We live in a culture and society of voyeurs, no one takes action. Not just cops, but ordinary thugs who prey on peoples unwillingness to get involved.

What if this student was tasered to death in front of 50 piers? If i was one of them maybe I wouldn't have done anything either, I can't claim to be a hero. But if he died and me and dozens of his fellow students watched the police go overboard and commit manslaughter... I would feel guilty the rest of my life.

These are things that everyone should consider. Dont you agree?

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

No, he didn't die from being tasered. He died from being restrained with another contributing factor.

I cant even be bothered with someone so dishonest. He was restrained and tasered and died as a result. Involuntary manslaughter. Dont put lipstick on a pig.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

Man up and assault a cop? Please. Don't respond to my post like I'm a popped collar jager bomb drinking jerk looking for trouble.

If you see 3 cops beating someone to death, is it your duty to watch and do nothing because their cops?

How about if you saw a couple cops taking turns punching a homeless person?

How about 2 male cops raping a woman? Unlikely I guess, but, is it still not ok to intervene cuz their cops?

Is there a line that you cross? Or can a cop do whatever they please in front of you and you consider it not your responsibility to stop them?

It's an honest question please respond in kind.

Not so unlikely

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...73D6ZK20110414

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I dont necessarily disagree with anything you wrote. I also think its dangerous to assume that everyone whos being taken down by the cops are guilty and have whats coming to them.

We live in a culture and society of voyeurs, no one takes action. Not just cops, but ordinary thugs who prey on peoples unwillingness to get involved.

What if this student was tasered to death in front of 50 piers? If i was one of them maybe I wouldn't have done anything either, I can't claim to be a hero. But if he died and me and dozens of his fellow students watched the police go overboard and commit manslaughter... I would feel guilty the rest of my life.

These are things that everyone should consider. Dont you agree?



I cant even be bothered with someone so dishonest. He was restrained and tasered and died as a result. Involuntary manslaughter. Dont put lipstick on a pig.

When I was young I used to step into a cross walk, wait a few seconds, then take another step regardless if the car coming was going to stop or not. Not in front of the car but make it look like I was.

My father told me how idiotic of an idea this was.

I retorted with the argument that "I'm a pedestrian in a cross walk, the car has to stop, it's no different from them coming up to a red light. It's the law, and if they hit me I'm 100% in the right."

My father told me "That may be true, you could be DEAD right"



I think this exchange applies here. Yes we do live in a more passive society. When I see people broken down on the highway I usually stop to see if I can be of assistance (most assistance I can be is to offer a cell phone, I know jack all about cars. But, one New Year's Eve that was enough for the lady on the highway I stopped to help).

Admittedly I've never been in a fight and I don't have the stature to intimidate (Halifax Drunk can vouch for me on my menacing size, or lack thereof). But is calling someone that can help really being passive?

If you were in that library and the victim died from the injuries inflicted upon him by the police, do you think they wouldn't have inflicted those same injuries on you if you attempted to stop it by getting between them, even if passively protecting the victim? I'd reiterate my father's "dead right" comment.

What could you do but die too?

Mind you I have no idea your size, or your ability to take a beating (I have no size, nor ability) my involvement would only escalate the situation. Something you have to remember in any situation, as it's something that needs to be avoided. Like your told when working in customer service and someone tries to rob you, don't be a hero, do as they say.

Originally Posted by MacGruber

Dont put lipstick on a pig.

Let's leave animal testing for another thread shall we?

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I dont necessarily disagree with anything you wrote. I also think its dangerous to assume that everyone whos being taken down by the cops are guilty and have whats coming to them.

We live in a culture and society of voyeurs, no one takes action. Not just cops, but ordinary thugs who prey on peoples unwillingness to get involved.

What if this student was tasered to death in front of 50 piers? If i was one of them maybe I wouldn't have done anything either, I can't claim to be a hero. But if he died and me and dozens of his fellow students watched the police go overboard and commit manslaughter... I would feel guilty the rest of my life.

These are things that everyone should consider. Dont you agree?



I cant even be bothered with someone so dishonest. He was restrained and tasered and died as a result. Involuntary manslaughter. Dont put lipstick on a pig.

That's the problem, you THINK you know what you are talking about, but you clearly don't. You said the taser killed him. That is not the case. How is that being dishonest? Don't answer that, it doesn't matter.

"involuntary manslaughter"? Gimme a break. There was no criminal act, and that is why there has been no charges.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

My father told me "That may be true, you could be DEAD right"

But in the situation I'm talking about I'm advocating for people to stop abuse and harm. I understand the comparison but it's not quite up to snuff. Getting across the street because its your right and stopping someone from harming or killing is another. But I agree to an extent.

I think this exchange applies here. Yes we do live in a more passive society. When I see people broken down on the highway I usually stop to see if I can be of assistance (most assistance I can be is to offer a cell phone, I know jack all about cars. But, one New Year's Eve that was enough for the lady on the highway I stopped to help).

Admittedly I've never been in a fight and I don't have the stature to intimidate (Halifax Drunk can vouch for me on my menacing size, or lack thereof). But is calling someone that can help really being passive?

If you were in that library and the victim died from the injuries inflicted upon him by the police, do you think they wouldn't have inflicted those same injuries on you if you attempted to stop it by getting between them, even if passively protecting the victim? I'd reiterate my father's "dead right" comment.

What could you do but die too?

By spreading around the attention and attack to more people, you spare the brunt being delivered to one person.

or maybe the students just surround the victim? Back in Croatia before the civil war, Serbian cops were going to attack a Croatian football named Boban. Bob kicked a Serbian cop who was attacking fans/players. When the police began to confront Boban, and engage him, dozens of fans poured on the field to surround Boban and protect him. Were they wrong? Hell no. and good for them.

Like your told when working in customer service and someone tries to rob you, don't be a hero, do as they say.

I agree. Cash for safety=good bargain.
Safety at someone elses expense=not as good a bargain, however

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

That's the problem, you THINK you know what you are talking about, but you clearly don't. You said the taser killed him. That is not the case. How is that being dishonest? Don't answer that, it doesn't matter.

Google Polish RCMP taser. Seems like the rest of world attributes his death to the tasering.

[metallicat]

Why exactly is Macgruber allowed to come back to CP under another username and continue his anti-police BS that he always spews?

[MacGruber]

It's funny and lame when people run out of arguments they start accusing new people of being banned. I've literally been accused of being 5 different people, and the alter ego of another. Pathetic. Sure makes things friendly on this site for new folks. Oh I forgot everyone who's ever had the internet is already on CP right?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

No two incidents are the same, fans protecting their beloved player in a known hostile environment is different from strangers in a library, but I do see your point.


I don't want to get in the RCMP tazer debate, however here is the autopsy report thanks to the fine folks at the CBC

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/news/bc-090414-...ortem-exam.pdf

According to Dr. Lee the cause of death was "sudden death during restrain" with the contributing factor being "chronic alcoholism". Take it for what you will, I'm no doctor, I'm no expert, but that's what the pathologist who did the autopsy says. I'm sure there is evidence that could be submitted to the contrary (so actually cite your evidence, what a foolish concept :P)

Originally Posted by MacGruber

Oh I forgot everyone who's ever had the internet is already on CP right?

I'm already on CP, at the end of the day, that's what really matters

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

It's funny and lame when people run out of arguments they start accusing new people of being banned. I've literally been accused of being 5 different people, and the alter ego of another. Pathetic. Sure makes things friendly on this site for new folks. Oh I forgot everyone who's ever had the internet is already on CP right?

Maybe it's the fact that you signed up a month ago and having been accusing other people IN THIS THREAD of being previous users. Oh, but I guess you've probably lurked for years, right? That's must be how you knew.

[MacGruber]

Thanks for the debate maritime. While I would suggest his cardiac arrest was likely brought on by the taser, of course if he was a healthier man he likely would have survived. I accept that. But he shouldn't have been tasered... so therein lies the rub.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Maybe it's the fact that you signed up a month ago and having been accusing other people IN THIS THREAD of being previous users. Oh, but I guess you've probably lurked for years, right? That's must be how you knew.

I was actually accused of being Ren at one point. Seems like a logical step to then accuse someone else who signed up only a year ago of then being him right?

I mean clearly he couldn't have been a lurker for all these years??

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

It's funny and lame when people run out of arguments they start accusing new people of being banned. I've literally been accused of being 5 different people, and the alter ego of another. Pathetic. Sure makes things friendly on this site for new folks. Oh I forgot everyone who's ever had the internet is already on CP right?

Perhaps you should try to make an actual argument first. Either way, welcome to ignore.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

No, he didn't die from being tasered. He died from being restrained with another contributing factor.

He died from a lethal arrhythmia triggered by the taser. This is the most common cause of death as a result of tasering. In most cases, the individual is predisposed to dangerous arrhythmias, and the electrical jolt is what brings them on.

There is also substantial evidence showing that many people that have been tasered for excessive periods of time will have cardiac arrhythmia problems in the aftermath of the incident.

Being hyped up on adrenaline or stimulants is dangerous in these situations, as it is more difficult for the heart's natural pacemaker to kick the heart back into normal rhythm.

edit: in fairness, I should have stated that the taser was a contributing factor to the lethal arrhythmia that killed him. IMO, you would have to be crazy to suggest that he would have died even if he was not tased.

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

He died from a lethal arrhythmia triggered by the taser. This is the most common cause of death as a result of tasering. In most cases, the individual is predisposed to dangerous arrhythmias, and the electrical jolt is what brings them on.

There is also substantial evidence showing that many people that have been tasered for excessive periods of time will have cardiac arrhythmia problems in the aftermath of the incident.

Being hyped up on adrenaline or stimulants is dangerous in these situations, as it is more difficult for the heart's natural pacemaker to kick the heart back into normal rhythm.

That is completely false.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

That is completely false.

No, it is not completely false.

Many autopsy reports dealing with taser deaths are inconclusive because it is difficult to trace a lethal arrhythmia after the heart has stopped beating. In fact, this is the case in most deaths that are caused by an arrhythmia (taser induced or not)... which is why the cause of death for scores of people that died from heart arrhythmias is listed as "natural causes", but that's beside the point. I'm not sure if you will ever see a death certificate that cites "ventricular fibrillation" as the cause of death.

The association between dangerous arrhythmia's and tasers is not a new one, and evidence has been mounting for some time that taser use is dangerous specifically for this reason.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

No, it is not completely false.

Many autopsy reports dealing with taser deaths are inconclusive because it is difficult to trace a lethal arrhythmia after the heart has stopped beating. In fact, this is the case in most deaths that are caused by an arrhythmia (taser induced or not)... which is why the cause of death for scores of people that died from heart arrhythmias is listed as "natural causes". You are never going to see a death certificate that cites "ventricular fibrillation" as the cause of death.

The association between dangerous arrhythmia's and tasers is not a new one, and evidence has been mounting for some time that taser use is dangerous specifically for this reason.

Dude, he's a certified internet doctor and he told you it was false.

Give it up with your "facts" and "explanations". Just makes you sound like even more of an idiot.

[Flabbibulin]

erased for being stupid

[RougeUnderoos]

..

[Flabbibulin]

Oooops, now I do feel like an idiot.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Yes, for the record I was kidding.

And I'm not even saying that I 100% agree with you Flabbi because frankly I have no idea who is right. Although the shocking number of taser related deaths leads me to take lean a little more towards your explanation.

I just find it funny whan people have the audacity to unequivocally tell other people that they have no idea what they're talking about on the internet where we have no way to verify anybody's credentials.

No disrespect to Bent Wookie. But at least provide some evidence if you're going to tell someone they don't know what they're talking about.