2011 Federal election polls, demographics, predictions

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Yeah, living in a democracy and exercising one's right to vote is such a drag. If only the government would consult us members of the public less often.

I'd prefer a more stable government too, but all the whining about 10 minutes at a polling station is just bizarre.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

1962,1963,1965,1968: 4 elections in 6 years.

Within that span, the Liberal leader was able to set up our health care system, our national flag, CPP amongst other achievements. The only good thing Harper has done with his minorities, is slightly lower taxes. However, even before the recession hit, he eliminated the federal surpluses necessary to pay off our debt.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by zamler

World citizen? You're really laying on the BS now aren't you. So that's how you become a great Canadian, don't live here. Brilliant.

Come on, you know better than that. Can't we please just create a zone where people are judged according to what they do and say rather than the city that their career took them to?

I lived in Boston for a while too. I was even an academic! Am I less Canadian than you are?!

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I'd prefer a more stable government too, but all the whining about 10 minutes at a polling station is just bizarre.

For most people I have spoken to it's not about the voting, it's about the wasted money to run the election to get basically the same results. Just had to swallow when you see over a billion dollars spent on elections in a 7 year window.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by HOOT

For most people I have spoken to it's not about the voting, it's about the wasted money to run the election to get basically the same results. Just had to swallow when you see over a billion dollars spent on elections in a 7 year window.

This is why Canada should move forward with Ignatieff's plans to roll out online voting. That has to be able to cut down the costs of elections. I would love a national election every 2 or 3 years if the cost was not so high. It would force us to pay attention to national issues, and would keep politicians more accountable to the people.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I lived in Boston for a while too. I was even an academic! Am I less Canadian than you are?!

I lived in the U.S. for some time myself. But the point raised is spending time away from Canada better prepares you to be PM, which I think is asinine. In fact, my time away from Canada most certainly put me out of touch with Canadian issues. In fact the longer you are away, the less in touch you become, it's reality. I would concede that if I spent a good portion of my life away from Canada, I would not be prepared to represent the country.

And to the point of spending time abroad, it's one thing to travel, it's quite another to be away from Canada for years.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by HOOT

For most people I have spoken to it's not about the voting, it's about the wasted money to run the election to get basically the same results. Just had to swallow when you see over a billion dollars spent on elections in a 7 year window.

Well, in that case I guess I'd say that democracy comes with a certain price tag, one we've collectively agreed that we're willing to pay.

I know it's fun to pretend that a billion dollars over 7 years is a lot of money for the Canadian government, but I wouldn't be shocked if the government spends more than that on embossed napkins and stationery during that same period.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by zamler

I lived in the U.S. for some time myself. But the point raised is spending time away from Canada better prepares you to be PM, which I think is asinine. In fact, my time away from Canada most certainly put me out of touch with Canadian issues. In fact the longer you are away, the less in touch you become, it's reality. I would concede that if I spent a good portion of my life away from Canada, I would not be prepared to represent the country.

And to the point of spending time abroad, it's one thing to travel, it's quite another to be away from Canada for years.

Pearson lived outside Canada for 20 years.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by zamler

I lived in the U.S. for some time myself. But the point raised is spending time away from Canada better prepares you to be PM, which I think is asinine. In fact, my time away from Canada most certainly put me out of touch with Canadian issues. In fact the longer you are away, the less in touch you become, it's reality.

And to the point of spending time abroad, it's one thing to travel, it's quite another to be away from Canada for years.

OK, so why don't we agree to this:
1. Academics sometimes have to leave Canada, because there are better opportunities in the U.S. (this is just a fact)
2. Living in the U.S. for a while doesn't make you less Canadian. In fact, such an attitude is provincial and dumb.
3. Living in the U.S. also doesn't make you MORE Canadian. That would be even dumber.
4. The fact that Ignatieff happens to have chosen a career in the academy has no bearing on his trustworthiness, Canadianness, or any other substantive character that might have any bearing on his preparation for Canadian politics.

If we can agree on that, then I think we can finally drop all this nonsense. That is, if Harper quits beating on it like a broken drum.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I know it's fun to pretend that a billion dollars over 7 years is a lot of money for the Canadian government, but I wouldn't be shocked if the government spends more than that on embossed napkins and stationery during that same period.

Pretend? Are you saying that it doesn't actually cost that much to run 4 elections in 7 years?

So what you are saying is if as long as the government wastes money in one part of the government it's okay to do it in others? I'm not a huge fan of that logic.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Pretend? Are you saying that it doesn't actually cost that much to run 4 elections in 7 years?

So what you are saying is if as long as the government wastes money in one part of the government it's okay to do it in others? I'm not a huge fan of that logic.

Well, spending a billion on the G8 event kinda makes the price of democracy in Canada over several years pale by comparison.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

2. Living in the U.S. for a while doesn't make you less Canadian.

You have latched on the term "less of a Canadian" and have stopped thinking. In terms of being in touch with Canada and the issues, understanding the dynamics of the country and how to move forward, it absolutely does matter if you are not actually living in Canada.

If we can agree on that, then I think we can finally drop all this nonsense. That is, if Harper quits beating on it like a broken drum.

Have you seen the Liberal ads lately? They are even more offensive and stupid.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by zamler

You have latched on the term "less of a Canadian" and have stopped thinking. In terms of being in touch with Canada and the issues, understanding the dynamics of the country and how to move forward, it absolutely does matter if you are not actually living in Canada.
Have you seen the Liberal ads lately? They are even more offensive and stupid.

If you have seen his answers to questions from random citizens on the campaign trail and 'open mike' sessions, then you cannot walk away with the feeling that he does not understand the issues that Canadians are concerned about. These questions are not given to him beforehand. It is kind of freaky to see him understand what people in one small and random region of the country are concerned about. There were a couple of those freaky moments during the debates.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by starseed

Well, spending a billion on the G8 event kinda makes the price of democracy in Canada over several years pale by comparison.

Again, how does that make this right?

I am in complete agreement and understanding that the government wastes a ton of money on different things but it shouldn't make it right for them to continue to do it. With the national debt raising at something stupid like $100k every minute we should be looking at ways to improve our situation not make it worse for the future generations.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Again, how does that make this right?

I am in complete agreement and understanding that the government wastes a ton of money on different things but it shouldn't make it right for them to continue to do it. With the national debt raising at something stupid like $100k every minute we should be looking at ways to improve our situation not make it worse for the future generations.

I see your point, but there has got to be a better way than to just not have elections. Online voting, parliament finding a leader who can work with the opposition enough to hold the confidence of the majority of our representatives....

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by starseed

I see your point, but there has got to be a better way than to just not have elections. Online voting, parliament finding a leader who can work with the opposition enough to hold the confidence of the majority of our representatives....

I personally don't vote for a number of reasons but I still think they should have elections. I just think elections should be planned every 4 years, not every 1.5 years. How can a government accomplish anything if you are changing so often?

It's also another reason you see voter decline every election people are starting not to care because if you pick the wrong guy you just get to do it again in 18 months.

It's just sad that in Canada we have to close down schools and hospitals because of budget cuts but then spend money in places it isn't needed.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I personally don't vote for a number of reasons but I still think they should have elections. I just think elections should be planned every 4 years, not every 1.5 years. How can a government accomplish anything if you are changing so often?

It's also another reason you see voter decline every election people are starting not to care because if you pick the wrong guy you just get to do it again in 18 months.

It's just sad that in Canada we have to close down schools and hospitals because of budget cuts but then spend money in places it isn't needed.

I guarantee you that the money spent by the federal government on elections has no effect on provincial funding levels for hospitals and schools.

And that's not just because of the whole federalism thing. It's also because relative to the entitlement programs and administrative costs of government, the amount spent on elections is actually tiny. You can say it's "inefficient" if you like, and I'd say "well, it probably depends on the program, its institutional structure and the value of its policy goals." But the substance of government (programs, administrative costs, materials, salaries, benefits, etc.) costs many thousands of times more than the occasional election.

Not to mention the fact that the cost of NOT having elections is in many ways much higher.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I guarantee you that the money spent by the federal government on elections has no effect on provincial funding levels for hospitals and schools.

Except when the Liberals win and they slash transfer payments balancing the budget.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Except when the Liberals win and they slash transfer payments balancing the budget.

I figured Conservative Albertans would want to see transfer payments slashed. Less money flowing out of Alberta to Quebec is what you want, right?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I figured Conservative Albertans would want to see transfer payments slashed. Less money flowing out of Alberta to Quebec is what you want, right?

Transfer payments are different than equalization.