Did N. Korea set off a nuke?

[transplant99]

Strange that today is the first i have read about this, as it reportedly happened 3 days ago.

US officials deny it was a nuke, but no on else has come up with an explanation.

A large cloud that appeared over North Korea in satellite images several days ago was not the result of a nuclear explosion, according to a U.S. official.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency is reporting a huge explosion shook North Korea's northernmost province on Thursday producing a mushroom cloud over 4 kilometers (two miles) wide.

The blast coincided with the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sepember 9 when various military activities are staged.

Then this most odd comment...

The U.S. official said the cloud could be the result of a forest fire.

It was a huge explosion....but it could of been from a forest fire? Huh?

The New York Times reported on Saturday that U.S. President George W. Bush and his top advisers recently received intelligence reports that could indicate North Korea is preparing its first nuclear test, citing senior officials with access to the intelligence.

Scary stuff. Of course the US and no one else has the "right" to go into N Korea and make sure this doesnt happen...afterall, what right does the western world have to impose their will to live on others considered a threat? Right Lanny? Afterall...N Korea is "contained".

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/1...last/index.html

[sbailey924]

I just heard about this too. Totally perplexing.

[transplant99]

Here is a report from the S Korean news agency


http://english.yna.co.kr/Engnews/20040912/...12130313E0.html

[Mike F]

Originally posted by transplant99@Sep 12 2004, 08:11 AM
Scary stuff. Of course the US and no one else has the "right" to go into N Korea and make sure this doesnt happen...afterall, what right does the western world have to impose their will to live on others considered a threat? Right Lanny? Afterall...N Korea is "contained".

I'm guessing that you're on the phone urging your congressman to push for a shocking and awesome attack ASAP, because if it was the only choice in Iraq, it's certainly the only choice here.

[Cowperson]

Considering they blew up half a town on the China border in an "incident" only a few months ago, its quite possible it really was just an accident.

Cowperson

[transplant99]

I'm guessing that you're on the phone urging your congressman to push for a shocking and awesome attack ASAP, because if it was the only choice in Iraq, it's certainly the only choice here.

Well being im not an American and therefor dont have a congressman...no.

And yes...there are a ton of choices with N Korea...they could use the diplomacy that has worked wonders with him so far...like the one he agreed to when he signed an agreement NOT to build nukes.

Or we could use that bastion of fairness called the UN...hey maybe we could have N Korea chair the human rights commission for a few months to soothe Kims ego?? Then ask him politley to stop starving his own people by the thousands and "pretty please with a cherry on top" dont use your nuclear arms?

Yeah thats better.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 12 2004, 11:27 AM
Considering they blew up half a town on the China border in an "incident" only a few months ago, its quite possible it really was just an accident.

Cowperson

Agreed...just curious as to what this may have been. Thats a hell of an explosion.

And very odd for an official to say it could be a forest fire...no?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

As scary as it is Tranny, no, the US, nor any other country for that matter, has the right to act unilaterally against another with the excuse of "national security", especially in the face of WMD. The only safe and effective manner in unarming a nation is through diplomatic channels and though agreement of the United Nations. Unilateral decision by one country against another is no way for countries to behaive in the 21 Century. With the advent of the Global Market and the Global Community we must learn to deal with these situations as a collective and not allow one country to be the policy setter and the cop (nee bully) on the block. That level of cooperation that existed after 9/11 is what we as a species should strive to attain again. The United States' actions at present are the reason we are where we are in the world politically. Want to know who to blame, look behind the stars and stipes that is blinding you.

The thing about this argument is the hypocrasy that the United States displays. They have enough nukes to burn the atmosphere off the planet, and the delivery mechanism to use them as a truely offensive weapon against any nation on the face of the earth, but they p*ss and moan about any other country that wishes to develop a program to defend themselves in the same manner. For a country that believes everyone has the right to bear arms it makes me laugh that they feel the "moral obligation" to safe guard the rest of the world. Sorry America, you opened this Pandora's Box, now everyone has to live with it. If you want everyone to end their weapons programs, you do the same. How can anyone honestly expect a North Korea to terminate their weapons program when the United States builds more bombs in a week than they do in a decade? The only way to get this brinksmanship to end is through complete and total numclear disarmament. Of course that is not going happen, so we have to live with the fact that nations are going to engage in these programs to protect themselves and all ow their politicians to sleep at night. Tit for tat so to speak.

If the US wants to disarm North Korea, or at least terminate their weapons programs, then they should take it up with the UN. I'm sure they will get plenty of support from the neighbors of North Korea, especially South Korea, Japan, China and Russia who have the most pull in the region. Get these players on board, have them contribute troops, and fill your boots. Until then, butt out and worry about your own problems. Focus on the diplomatic angle.

If the US is really worried about being attacked, then maybe they should reconsider their foreign policy and stop marching around the globe kicking sand in everyone's faces. No one wants to attack Canada or Sweden or Switzerland. It's because those nations respect the borders and traditions of the other nations on the planet and aren't cowboys with a hard-on to show how much power they have. The more the US flexes its muscles, the greater threat they pose to themselves. Advice to the United States: Keep your military on your own shores and learn how diplomacy works. It works for everyone else, why not for you?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by transplant99@Sep 12 2004, 03:31 PM
they could use the diplomacy that has worked wonders with him so far...like the one he agreed to when he signed an agreement NOT to build nukes.

You mean like the one the US pulled out of? What do you expect other nations to do Tranny? Bow down and kiss the smelly ass of the United States at every turn? The minute the United States shows a modicum of respect toward another nation is the minute I change my tune. But this BS of telling governments how to run their countries is getting tiresome. The US is not perfect and has more problems of their own than a lot of the nations they are telling how to govern themselves. The United States should worry about the United States and quite meddling in others' affairs. If someone needs help, they will ask for it through the UN.

[transplant99]

The only safe and effective manner in unarming a nation is through diplomatic channels and though agreement of the United Nations

You have GOT to be kidding.

Diplomacy with Kim Jong Il???

He doesnt know what the word means and he has ZERO interest in listening to what ANY one else says.

He stays in power by keeping people impoverished, brainwashing them, and arepresses them so brutally that it makes Hussein look like Willy Wonka.

You think he gives a crap what the UN or indeed, the entire world thinks about him? Not a chance.

The guy is ruthless. "Talking" is not in his repetoire.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Sep 12 2004, 11:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Sep 12 2004, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-transplant99@Sep 12 2004, 03:31 PM
they could use the diplomacy that has worked wonders with him so far...like the one he agreed to when he signed an agreement NOT to build nukes.

You mean like the one the US pulled out of? What do you expect other nations to do Tranny? Bow down and kiss the smelly ass of the United States at every turn? The minute the United States shows a modicum of respect toward another nation is the minute I change my tune. But this BS of telling governments how to run their countries is getting tiresome. The US is not perfect and has more problems of their own than a lot of the nations they are telling how to govern themselves. The United States should worry about the United States and quite meddling in others' affairs. If someone needs help, they will ask for it through the UN. [/b][/quote]
Yeah you are right.

Just allow the rest of the world to go on their merry way and dont worry about what goes on else where. Afterall, these are all reasonable people that wouldnt stoop to sudden attacks out of the blue....got it

Worked well before WW2. Whoops. Pearl Harbor changed all that nonsense.

Worked well before 9/11 as well. Whoops.

I guess maybe some preventative measures might have been a better idea?

It blows my mind that you cant grasp the fact that the US is NOT equal to every other country in the world Lanny. They have been leaned on internationally for decades to help out all over the world. Why? Because they are not the "same" as everyone else.

Sort of like the whole Somalia debacle. The UN asks the US to go in and provide relief to the impoverished people. They do so because its the right thing. Then when they come up against the warlords that are responsible for the impoverished people, and lose 18 soldiers doing nothing more than trying to protect the innocents of the country, they retalliate. They then get clobbered on the international front because they hit the wrong target. Now they are considered the aggressive imperialists who are trying to bully the "world".

Maybe you are right....the US should pull out of everything and allow the animals in all these countries to destroy themselves...and millions of innocents that happen to be guilty of nothing more than being born in the wrong place.

I would LOVE to see the reaction from your side when they say NO...not helping anyone else ever again. Hell, maybe they should of done that as recently as 1991, and Hussein would now be likely invading his 3rd or 4th country in the middle eat and building up his empire by force even more. Of course he wouldnt be a threat to anyone in the western world would he?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Yeah Tranny, and there are people all over the world saying the exact same thing about Bush43 so what is your point? They believe what they believe and we believe what we believe. I don't see where a unilateral move on North Korea would do anything but upset the whole region. Now if the whole region were involved and shared in the responsibilty of such a task, then I have no problem with it. But the US going in and sticking their noses in where it does not belong is wrong. North Korea is a much greater threat to those in the region that they are to America, THEY are the ones who should be up in arms. Where is the protest from Japan, China and Russia?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Tranny, Ask youself this very simple question. Why is the United States always the one under scrutiny? Why does everyone hate them so much? Why are the Chinese not in the watch list? How about the Russians? How about the French? How about the Germans? How about the British? Why is it always the Americans? The Canadians do more UN peacekeeping than any other country, why is Canada not a target? Why is the US the country that everyone hates?

BTW... the US did the right thing in 1991, and got the UN's blessing for an action in Kuwait. What is so wrong with doing it again?

[Mike F]

Originally posted by transplant99@Sep 12 2004, 08:49 AM
You have GOT to be kidding.

Diplomacy with Kim Jong Il???

He doesnt know what the word means and he has ZERO interest in listening to what ANY one else says.

He stays in power by keeping people impoverished, brainwashing them, and arepresses them so brutally that it makes Hussein look like Willy Wonka.

You think he gives a crap what the UN or indeed, the entire world thinks about him? Not a chance.

The guy is ruthless. "Talking" is not in his repetoire.

Well, according to National Security Advisor Rice on Late Edition this very morning, the Bush admin is committed to solving the N Korea problem diplomatically.

It will be nice to have you railing against them for a change.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Mike F@Sep 12 2004, 04:15 PM
Well, according to National Security Advisor Rice on Late Edition this very morning, the Bush admin is committed to solving the N Korea problem diplomatically.

It will be nice to have you railing against them for a change.

ZING!!!

[longsuffering]

Originally posted by transplant99@Sep 12 2004, 03:49 PM

You have GOT to be kidding.

Diplomacy with Kim Jong Il???

He doesnt know what the word means and he has ZERO interest in listening to what ANY one else says.

You think he gives a crap what the UN or indeed, the entire world thinks about him? Not a chance.

The guy is ruthless. "Talking" is not in his repetoire.

Kind of like GWB then?

[Clarkey]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Sep 12 2004, 04:09 PM
Tranny, Ask youself this very simple question. Why is the United States always the one under scrutiny? Why does everyone hate them so much? Why are the Chinese not in the watch list? How about the Russians? How about the French? How about the Germans? How about the British? Why is it always the Americans? The Canadians do more UN peacekeeping than any other country, why is Canada not a target? Why is the US the country that everyone hates?

BTW... the US did the right thing in 1991, and got the UN's blessing for an action in Kuwait. What is so wrong with doing it again?

No one ever kicks a dead dog.

The U.S. is on top, whenever you're on top you are going to get flack. It's part of being a leader.

[transplant99]

Why is the US the country that everyone hates?

Huh?

Lets see....

terrorist bomings in Spain, Malaysia, Bali, Russia, Israel, Iraq, Kenya, N Ireland, Argentina, India, England, Phillipines, Japan, France, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Egypt, Singapore, Tunisia, Pakistan, Yemen, Turkey,

all have been victims of "terrorist" attacks...and thats just inthe last 15 years.

As for Canada...is your memory really that short?

Aremenian terrorists made several attacks in Canada.

Flight 182 that left from Toronto was blown up by Sihk militants.

Mujahideen al-Khalq ( an al-queda cell) attacked the Iranian embassy in Canada.

To think that ONLY the US is "hated" world wide is foolish and narrow minded at the least, but it does explain your position on many things.

I believe in prevention rather than reaction...you dont, thats fine.

I would much rather see something stopped before it happens however and use THAT as reason to go elsewhere in the world to make sure I never see another 9/11 in my lifetime...or even scarier...something worse.

You know..like a nuclear strike from N Korea to some unsuspecting country (Likely S Korea) that is just going about its existance.

[transplant99]

Kind of like GWB then?

Even if you believe that, you know the differance?

Win or lose the election..Bush will be gone in no more than 4 years. Thats the beauty of democracy and something you cannot dispute.

Kim? Will be around til the day he dies...or until removed from power by force. Sort of like Hussein.

But again...I guess its preferable to just allow these guys free reign to kill and oppress as many as they like as long as the big bad US stays out of other peoples business.

Got it.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Mike F+Sep 12 2004, 12:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ Sep 12 2004, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-transplant99@Sep 12 2004, 08:49 AM
You have GOT to be kidding.

Diplomacy with Kim Jong Il???

He doesnt know what the word means and he has ZERO interest in listening to what ANY one else says.

He stays in power by keeping people impoverished, brainwashing them, and arepresses them so brutally that it makes Hussein look like Willy Wonka.

You think he gives a crap what the UN or indeed, the entire world thinks about him? Not a chance.

The guy is ruthless. "Talking" is not in his repetoire.

Well, according to National Security Advisor Rice on Late Edition this very morning, the Bush admin is committed to solving the N Korea problem diplomatically.

It will be nice to have you railing against them for a change. [/b][/quote]
Good for them...doesnt mean it will work.

But now i see you are applauding the Bush administration for doing what you wish!!

Good stuff.

It may really surprise you to read this, but i hope Bush is turfed in November...and with a thud.

That doesnt mean however, that i dont think he has been dead on in the fight against terrorism EVERYWHERE, but thats just one component of his presidency...its most of the other areas that i say he has failed miserably, and yes, that includes some of the foreign policy he has come up with...oops...i mean that the neo-cons told the puppet to come up with.