8.9 Magnitude quake hits offshore Japan

[HotHotHeat]

Ffs.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

Magnitude 7.4, Tsunami Advisory issued.

http://www.jma.go.jp/en/tsunami/

Not likely a big Tsunami at 7.4. but man that island is not a safe place right now and likely for a long time. crazy to think the worst is predicted to come where the plates are jammed to the southeast of Tokyo. I feel so sorry for a nation full of arguably the nicest people on the planet.

[fundmark19]

All warnings have been cancelled that is good news

[fanman]

Felt that one! Was shaking here for about a minute or so. Looks like the warnings on the TV have died down, hopefully no one up north has to deal with more tsunamis.

[fanman]

An interesting link. It's a time lapse map showing all of the quakes and aftershocks in Japan starting on March 11th. The 9.0 comes in the early afternoon and the action really picks up from there. You can see all of the shakes some of us here have been experiencing since the big one.

http://www.japanquakemap.com/

Looking at the TV news today, looks like some damage occured in the Miyagi area from the 7.4 quake last night. The shaking was quite severe there.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Annnnnd...another one. FFS. This was a 7.1 in Ibaraki/Fukushima. Bad spot for that to hit, and not liking the fact they seem to be creeping downward...

[fanman]

The craziness never stops! Hope the people up there are ok, they've still been getting rocked a lot. It's got to start taking a toll on your mind after a while. I can't believe it's been a month already since the big one, and we're still getting all these huge aftershocks.

[FlamesAddiction]

Apparently they are evacuating more people around the nuclear plant now too.

[photon]

I only read they evacuated the onsite workers to a seismic shelter.

I also read that they lost off-site power and the water wasn't being pumped but it was restored less than an hour later.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html

[Jedi Ninja]

Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has now raised the severity level of the Fukushima accident to Level 7. It doesn't sound like anything new has happened, more just a reflection that the reality of the ongoing situation there.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has now raised the severity level of the Fukushima accident to Level 7. It doesn't sound like anything new has happened, more just a reflection that the reality of the ongoing situation there.

Right up there with Chernobyl, probably worse. Japan is in for a grim summer once the south winds establish.

And we are not a safe distance away either:
"The risks associated with iodine-131 contamination in Europe are no longer "negligible," according to CRIIRAD, a French research body on radioactivity. The NGO is advising pregnant women and infants against "risky behaviour," such as consuming fresh milk or vegetables with large leaves."

....

"CRIIRAD says its information note is not limited to the situation in France and is applicable to other European countries, as the level of air contamination is currently the same in Belgium, Germany, Italy and Switzerland, for instance. Data for the west coast of the United States, which received the Fukushima radioactive fallout 6-10 days before France, reveals that levels of radioactive iodine-131 concentration are 8-10 times higher there, the institute says."

http://www.euractiv.com/en/health/ra...le-news-503947

[Wood]

[OBCT]

:|

That video is so frightening and sad! ........

[TylerSVT]

Jesus... looks like a few of those older people didnt make it

[photon]

Originally Posted by giver99

Right up there with Chernobyl, probably worse.

Japan is in for a grim summer once the south winds establish.

Not even close to Chernobyl.

Originally Posted by giver99

And we are not a safe distance away either:
"The risks associated with iodine-131 contamination in Europe are no longer "negligible," according to CRIIRAD, a French research body on radioactivity. The NGO is advising pregnant women and infants against "risky behaviour," such as consuming fresh milk or vegetables with large leaves."

Right, the levels they detected in rain water (from the French document the article links to) were from 4.9 Bq/L to 0.24 Bq/L. You would have to drink hundreds of liters of water to get the same dose as eating a few bananas.

I can't even see where they have measured levels in food but talk about how "risky" it is.

But let's hear your prediction. You say "Japan is in for a grim summer once the south winds establish."

Define grim. How many deaths? What level of radiation? What impact? Lets hear your predictions so we can evaluate them.

[flylock shox]

^ That video is scary.

I was in Thailand last year when there was a tsunami false alarm. It was pandemonium, and just like the cameraperson in that video everyone climbed to higher ground - up in the trees beyond the houses below - and just looked out to the coast and waited. To have your fears confirmed like that though... poor #######s.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Photon is right on with this. The fact there was a spread of radioactivity 20km outside of the plant meets the definition of a 7, that's why they changed it. Not because of any new developments or risks.

In fact, airborne readings in Yokohama (much, much, closer than France is to the plant, BTW) and Tokyo show declining background radiation very much normal.
http://www.city.yokohama.lg.jp/kankyo/saigai/
(As a funny aside, Tokyo's readings are still half of Hong Kong's normal daily readings FWIW)

The stuff is local, and it's terrible for the people around the area in Fukushima, but it's not being projected with huge velocity into the atmosphere. That's the huge, major difference between Chernobyl and Fukushima.

As for Giver99 - who has nothing at stake in this - you can simply put out your own morbid apocalyptic fantasies by claiming that somehow the magic winds from Fukushima will blow straight south and destroy Tokyo (that's what you're saying, isn't it). The site you quoted defines "eating fresh milk" and "leafy veg" as risky behavior. (Funny in itself) And then throws out numbers that are completely not even out of the ordinary, relying on people's ignorance of radiation to scare them into believing the problem is bigger than it is. If there's one thing that's happened to all of us Japanese residents over the past couple of weeks is that we've all boned up on our nuclear/radiation over the past month.

I'm also keen to hear Giver's prediction. Let er rip.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by photon

Not even close to Chernobyl.

I agree. This will be worse. Chernobyl 4 only had 192 tonnes of fuel with no spent fuel pools involved
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/chernobyl/inf07.html

The Daiichi complex had a total of 1760 metric tons of fresh and used nuclear fuel last year.
http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/acc...powerpoint.pdf

The bombs dropped over Hiroshima & Nagasaki contained less than 20 kilograms of fissionable material. Neutron sources have been found up to 1 mile from the units, most likely from the exploded fuel pools from reactor's 3 & 4.
http://fukushimafaq.wikispaces.com/f...+26march11.pdf

From Reuter's today:
"The operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant said on Tuesday that they are concerned that the radiation leakage could eventually exceed that of the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

"The radiation leak has not stopped completely and our concern is that it could eventually exceed Chernobyl," an official from operator Tokyo Electric and Power told reporters on Tuesday."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...00635920110412

Comparing radioactive cesium or iodine with naturally occurring radioactive substances - even those which can become internal emitters (bannanas for instance) - is incorrect and misleading. For internal emitters, quantum effects dominate and the energies are very high due to the small distances involved. There is no legitimate comparison between a one-time X-ray and ingesting particles that continuously radiate you for the rest of your life.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3570629
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...%20emitters%22

Originally Posted by photon

But let's hear your prediction. You say "Japan is in for a grim summer once the south winds establish." Define grim.

Water contaminated, air contaminated, animal life contaminated, food contaminated. No known solution in sight. We are all, globally, in the grip of a disaster that has no easy ending.

What impact?
For starters, they have lost the Kanto Plain where a lot of the Japan's food is grown:

http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/cae6...62912a89d44092

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201104080169.html

Originally Posted by photon

How many deaths?

Using only radiation readings that have been publicly released to date, not accounting for any future releases that are ongoing: 200,000. 66% of these within 10 years.
http://fairewinds.com/content/health...ittee-radiatio

What level of radiation?
Depends how close, which way the wind blows and how long it takes them to stop the continuous releases from the plant (still around 1 terrabecquerel an hour, I'll get you the link if you really want...)

"The accumulated amount of radiation in the soil at Iitate, Fukushima Prefecture--which is located outside of the 30-km radius--calculated over a three-month period would exceed the annual accumulated amount of 20 millisieverts that the central government is considering as a guideline for evacuating residents"
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201104080169.html


Low cumulative doses are not harmless. They increase the risk of cancer. See this study:
http://www.cheec.uiowa.edu/misc/radon.html.

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

As for Giver99 - who has nothing at stake in this...

This is global and we all have a stake in it. Should we lock the thread and keep it locals only?

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

The fact there was a spread of radioactivity 20km outside of the plant meets the definition of a 7, that's why they changed it. Not because of any new developments or risks.

Level 7 is defined as a “major release of radioactive material with widespread health and environmental effects requiring implementation of planned and extended countermeasures,” according the International Nuclear Event Scale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ar_Event_Scale

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

In fact, airborne readings in Yokohama (much, much, closer than France is to the plant, BTW) and Tokyo show declining background radiation very much normal.
http://www.city.yokohama.lg.jp/kankyo/saigai/
(As a funny aside, Tokyo's readings are still half of Hong Kong's normal daily readings FWIW)

See above, it just depends on the wind.

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

The stuff is local, and it's terrible for the people around the area in Fukushima, but it's not being projected with huge velocity into the atmosphere. That's the huge, major difference between Chernobyl and Fukushima.

In Chernobyl, the core got expelled as high as what was left of the reactor's roof. In Fukishima, they are bulldozing core material that emits a neutron beam that has landed a mile away.
http://fukushimafaq.wikispaces.com/f...+26march11.pdf

Go back in the thread quite a few pages and watch the explosions on youtube. If I could white board it for you, I would draw the secondary containment vessel with a box above showing the spent nuclear pool. Vessel explodes, pool above vessel gets taken along with it, nuclear rods, & fissile material launching into the sky.

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

The site you quoted defines "eating fresh milk" and "leafy veg" as risky behavior. (Funny in itself) And then throws out numbers that are completely not even out of the ordinary, relying on people's ignorance of radiation to scare them into believing the problem is bigger than it is.

You might want to bone up a bit more on radiation. Th EPA’s MCL for iodine-131 is 3 picoCuries per liter of water. (0.11 Bq/L) google it...

Also, this was translated so expect a bit of noise. The levels exceed what the EPA et al have previously outlined as safe and studies of Chernobyl fallout have validated as harmful, especially when concentrated in the thyroid of small children.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/facts.../en/index.html

I don't know if Tokyo will be abandoned or not when the south flow picks up in the coming weeks. It is pretty far from the nuclear plant which is promising. On the other hand the water shed for Tokyo lies mainly to the north, closer to the plant.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by giver99

I agree. This will be worse. Chernobyl 4 only had 192 tonnes of fuel with no spent fuel pools involved
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/chernobyl/inf07.html

...


Low cumulative doses are not harmless. They increase the risk of cancer. See this study:
http://www.cheec.uiowa.edu/misc/radon.html.

This is global and we all have a stake in it. Should we lock the thread and keep it locals only?

What an absolute load of bovine scatology. Kanto plain? You mean Tokyo City.....

Is doing fine.


MOD edit: No need to quote most of the article.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by HOZ

What an absolute load of bovine scatology. Kanto plain? You mean Tokyo City.....

Is doing fine.

Not for food production, read the actual links...