With all due respect, $500 - $1000 is a total exaggeration, bordering on hyperbole. A $1000 PC laptop will not have the same specs as a $2000 MacBook Pro. Don't kid yourself.
You're right, the PC could have better specs.
I just configured a i7-2720QM 15" Macbook Pro on Apple.ca with the same specs (2.2GHz Sandy Bridge CPU, 750GB harddrive, 8GB ram) as my own laptop that I just picked up today aside from the graphics.
Mine cost $1425 before tax. The Macbook pro costs $2,469 before tax. However, mine has GPU that is 2 times faster than the Mac's.
If we are talking pure specs, the PC laptop will always win, and often by margins of up to $1000 as the other poster said.
But when you buy a Mac, you are paying for the unique design, the quality control, the support, the brand, the OS, the software, etc. which is something else and if that is value to you for an extra, $1000, good for you.
I just configured a i7-2720QM 15" Macbook Pro on Apple.ca with the same specs (2.2GHz Sandy Bridge CPU, 750GB harddrive, 8GB ram) as my own laptop that I just picked up today aside from the graphics.
Mine cost $1425 before tax. The Macbook pro costs $2,469 before tax. However, mine has GPU that is 2 times faster than the Mac's.
If we are talking pure specs, the PC laptop will always win, and often by margins of up to $1000 as the other poster said.
But when you buy a Mac, you are paying for the unique design, the quality control, the support, the brand, the OS, the software, etc. which is something else and if that is value to you for an extra, $1000, good for you.
I can't believe I am defending Apple, but I digress...
The brands you mention earlier, and I am assuming you use are off (non-mainstream) brands. So you are right, I am sure you can get a Taiwan branded laptop with the same specs for way less.
However, I should have said I was refering to Overall Total Quality between major brands, not just hardware specs. I was wrong to not mention that. However, I think for a fair comparison we should compare premium designed laptops sold by a name brand manufacturer (Sony, Toshiba, Lenovo, etc.), at full retail price. Using Windows Ultimate, since Apple does not have this type of versioning.
Apple and it's vendors do not do sales, so it's the best test I can think of. Just because you can find some no name laptop from Taiwan, or build one yourself, for way cheaper is not a true comparison to Apple IMO.
I do agree that Apple is more expensive (but not $1000 when fairly compared), and is a premium. However, the build quality, QC, and design is hard to match against most PC laptops because it does not exisit in many models. The only one I can think of is the Sony Z series laptop, which is the same price or even a bit more.
i dont think its hard to recognize apple sells more than computers. they sell a whole ... brand.. lifestyle even?
Big time.
I wouldn't buy an Apple computer because of the price (what?! they're overpriced?) but I own an iPod and nearly bought an iPhone, because they're pretty solid products. Apple is a great company, but unfortunately when it comes to their PC's, I'd go with many other companies above them. Although the aluminium case is quite nice...
From my experience, Apple make great laptops and other products. The problem lies in their mark-up, and inability to modify, which is beyond ridiculous. With that in mind, I refuse to buy an Apple computer.
I've had an Acer Aspire 5740 for just over a year and it's been awesome so far. My complaint would reside in the battery life, but it hasn't been much of an issue because I hardly take it anywhere, unless I'm doing some major travelling. Hack&Lube pretty much has the best advice; research.
www.cnet.com will get you some pretty competent reviews.
Edit: Yes, my Acer has extra characters (not a curved keyboard, though), but I don't see why it's a problem. You're not forced to use them. They're definitely not on every key and unless you're staring at your keyboard, it's not an issue. As for the number pad; I use it regularly, so I find it effective. The trackpad is fine for me, I wouldn't be using it for graphic design, but it gets the job done.
I've got a 4740 of the same vintage that I picked up in Singapore, and it's got a normal keyboard. No issues with my computer so far. But it isn't a bargain-bin machine either, and Acer does make those and I'd be leery of buying one.
My work laptop is a Dell Precision M2300 that's three years old, going strong. I've found Dell's workstation-level equipment to be very good for performance and reliability over the years.
Edit: I misunderstood the extra characters thing. Mine has a normal keyboard layout, but has the function-key / numberpad thing, which I use all the time, as well as additional functions on the F2-F12 keys. It's a nice feature. With the exception of the numberpad, the normal alphanumeric keys don't have any additional characters.
A link to an interesting study from just over a year ago that proves a few points made in this thread:
1) As a general rule, the cheaper a laptop is the more it will break down.
2) The failure rates for most laptops are very similar...except HP.
3) Saying Apple has better internal hardware is wrong. A hard drive is a hard drive, regardless of the wrapping. Where Apple does shine, however, is the screen, keyboard, case, etc. Oh, and the OS.
IMO, your buying decision should be based upon overall value, not just reliability. What is the warranty like, what is the process like when something goes wrong?
At the end of the day, just do as suggested here and read some detailed reviews of specific models as quality can vary greatly.
Originally Posted by OldDutch With all due respect, $500 - $1000 is a total exaggeration, bordering on hyperbole. A $1000 PC laptop will not have the same specs as a $2000 MacBook Pro. Don't kid yourself.
This always happens. I would say that PC laptops and desktops alike can both have ATLEAST better specs than their similarly matched mac product for under HALF the price.
Anyone here post their mac product and it can be beat in about 5 minutes of research. My friend is a typical mac defender in the fact that he says you are buying the quality and service. He said that his laptop stopped working after a year and they shipped him a new one without question. That is pretty cool, but you already paid for 2 laptops by choosing that brand, so your getting ripped anyways.
I take very good care of my electronics and am very capable of fixing any problems through experience or research.
Most laptops have a month return policy as well. so if you purchase a great deal on a cheap Acer, MSI, etc. and you don't like the build quality, then you return it for a full refund and look for another product.
The mac love just blows me away always, and if its the OS that you like, then buy any computer and just install that OS on it. It's a software issue.
My current laptop is $398 after all taxes:
3-4 hour batt life, 15.6inch Acer
touch screen (works very well)
3gb ddr3 (replacing the 1gb stick with a 4gb for $40 this month to bring it to 6gb)
i3 350
NVIDIA GT 330M graphics
320gb storage
That totally makes me want to trade my Corvette in for a Cavalier.
That's actually the perfect analogy in another way. The Corvette Z06 (PC) has all the performance (even better actually) than a Porsche 911 (Mac) at 70% of the price but the Corvette is made of plastic and the Porsche body is steel and aluminum. Some people will always think Corvettes are for porn stache rednecks and some will always see Porsche owners as euro mullet fags. It's all perception.
I just got my Sager 8130 today and looking at what the insured value was, it was actually only around $1350 wholesale from the supplier. So shipping, middlemen, and taxes dinged me for about $150.
From experience, I'd say the build quality and looks is on par with several VAIO models although I opted for the cheaper model body that was not rubberized with the special finish and is just textured plastic to save money that I need for an SSD.
Keyboard is as good as any Apple/VAIO keyboard except it is not backlit. The screen is a 15.6" AU Optronics matte model (another thing I specified) and it is much better for bright environments like office lighting than the glossy screens many modern high end laptops go for. Has THX certified sound and even a low frequency driver (subwoofer) internally.
The Sager is made by Clevo in Taiwan. Clevo makes several of the Alienware models for Dell.
What is upgradeable and what did I choose?
CPU (2.2GHz i7 2720QM)
RAM (8GB)
GPU (GTX 460M 1.5GB)
HDD (750 GB 7200RPM)
Optical Drive (HDD Caddy)
Wireless Module (Stock)
Optional internal TV Tuner (CATV port exists), already has HDMI, DVI, USB 3.0, Firewire, IR
Optional internal SIM card reader (for 3G/4G, etc.) - maybe already installed, I see the slot for a SIM card
Even the LCD screen is swappable for glossy or higher gamut models (Matte)
Basically I can upgrade everything if I want to or the place I bought it from can do it for me. I purchased it from http://www.fortnaxnotebooks.com/ which is in Calgary and the guy was great. He replied to my e-mails everyday within minutes. I think if I dealt directly with Sager or even a big company like Dell, I would probably not get that level of communication or I would be forwarded to Indian tech support. I've called Apple support before and while it was decent, I still needed to press a bunch of numbers and wait several minutes to get to a real person.
Just looked, the Macbook doesnt have an HDMI output. Its just simple things like that which make Mac's an impossible buy for me.
So i spec'd out a Macbook Pro and a Dell XPS 15
Mac:
2.0GHZ quad core I7
4gb Memory
500G hard drive
8X DVD R/RW Drive
256MB graphics card
15 inch screen, 1440x900 Resolution
Thunderbolt ready
Bluetooth
Mag Power cord
Price: $1799
Dell:
2.0 GHZ Quad core i7 Processor with turboboost 2.0 to 2.9ghz
6 GB memory
750GB hard drive
Nvidia 525M 1GB graphics card
Blue Ray player, DVD burner Combo
M$ Windows 7 Home and Student (excel, ppt, word, etc.)
15.6 inch screen, 1920x1080 resolution
Bluetooth.
Just looked, the Macbook doesnt have an HDMI output. Its just simple things like that which make Mac's an impossible buy for me.
So i spec'd out a Macbook Pro and a Dell XPS 15
Mac:
2.0GHZ quad core I7
4gb Memory
500G hard drive
8X DVD R/RW Drive
256MB graphics card
15 inch screen, 1440x900 Resolution
Thunderbolt ready
Bluetooth
Mag Power cord
Price: $1799
Dell:
2.0 GHZ Quad core i7 Processor with turboboost 2.0 to 2.9ghz
6 GB memory
750GB hard drive
Nvidia 525M 1GB graphics card
Blue Ray player, DVD burner Combo
M$ Windows 7 Home and Student (excel, ppt, word, etc.)
15.6 inch screen, 1920x1080 resolution
Bluetooth.
Maybe getting a little dated, but the ol' white $1100 macbooks were awesome for recording. They came with a fire wire port, garage band and wouldn't crash like a PC would over dozens of hours of recording time. Recording is plenty frustrating without wanting to kill the machine.
Especially if you consider resale value. My Dell laptop lost about 80% of it's value in 2-3 years of owning it. My mid-2008 iMac is still probably worth about 50-60% of what I paid for it.
