Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Originally Posted by Tinordi
My biggest problem with the Tea Party is that they are the entitled now trying to end entitlements for others.
My read on it is this, by-in-large tea parties are baby boomers who have grown up benefiting from modern social welfare state of the 60-70-80s. When they weren't the ones footing all the bill life was great. Now that they're earning the high incomes and having to pay taxes to support it do they start complaining that the social welfare state is too expensive and those benefits that they enjoyed should now be reduced for others.
I see tea partiers not as a broad social movement but another veiled attempt of identity politics in this case for older, richer, whiter people. Keep more for us in the way of low taxes and give less to others in the way of income support, medicare, education, job training, etc.
I would mortgage my house and suggest that the VAST majority of tea partiers are nothing more than middle class citizens....far from the "older rich white" that you suggest.
My read on it is this, by-in-large tea parties are baby boomers who have grown up benefiting from modern social welfare state of the 60-70-80s. When they weren't the ones footing all the bill life was great. Now that they're earning the high incomes and having to pay taxes to support it do they start complaining that the social welfare state is too expensive and those benefits that they enjoyed should now be reduced for others.
Bingo. I'm seeing politics breaking down along generational lines in the next few years as the younger generations struggle to meet the demands of the aging selfish boomers who see only with short term blinders. My favorite example of this conflict are the idiot boomers expecting their massive 800,000$ plus houses on the edge of the city to sell in the next few years thus setting themselves up for retirement. Who the heck is going to buy those properties? GenX? The generation the boomers have held back for 20 years from attaining wealth levels to be able to afford that price? It's not so bad in the West, but out East it's going to be a hellish time.
Boomer have ruined the housing market and are now refusing the retire. Just ask starting teachers about substitution - anyone else think it's ridiculous a "retired teacher" can draw a full pension AND substitute teach?
Just went way off topic though... /rant
The Tea Party makes the Reform party look moderate. Take the level of crazy that allows half of America to interpret a 2500 year old work of literature literally and apply it to a political movement. These people are completely devoid of rational thought and incapable of thinking outside of their own personal well-being. They represent one of the most pathological forces on the planet - right up there with the idiots who think blowing up innocents will get them virgins in heaven.
I liken them to the loud mouthed moron in High School who continued to yell loudly to make his points in an argument, regardless of being logically proven wrong by the rest of the class and the teacher. The Tea Party is doing a disservice to any and all right wing political movements by further cementing the opinion that anyone on the "right" is an ignorant moron (note: I do not hold this opinion myself ).
They don't debate. They don't argue. Anyone who doesn't agree with them isn't worth consideration in the slightest. And they call down "liberals" as elitists... good lord.
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I liken them to the loud mouthed moron in High School who continued to yell loudly to make his points in an argument, regardless of being logically proven wrong by the rest of the class and the teacher.
This.
Yes it's kind of a childish/mud-slinging comparison, but it doesn't change the fact that it's pretty darn accurate.
They may be unintentionally keeping the Dems in power, as undecideds are turned off by the extremism. I think they are a huge problem for the reasonable right.
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What a stupid name for a politcal party. How can anyone take that seriously?
Thats like the Marijuana party or something. It sounds like a joke.
It's based on the acronym "Taxed Enough Already". Apparantly it sprouted during a live interview on CNBC of a financial reporter on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange during the recent market crash. He had a minor meltdown on camera and spouted something like, "we've been taxed enough already". It kind of took off from there. Also, it makes a historical reference to the Boston Tea Party which was a trigger point for the American revolution when the British increased the taxes on tea and the Boston colonists dumped the tea in the harbor. All in all, I think the name is more clever than most.
In terms of what's wrong with the TEA Party, I think it really depends which TEA Party we're talking about. The inital TEA Party was, more or less, a grass-party movement. It started by real people with real concerns about the state and future of the economy. Most of those original people are middle to upper class white professionals. Their platform has evolved from "smaller more effecient government and less taxes" to "cut most social services for the poor to help those of us that already took advantage of the system and don't need it anymore". That's a bit of an exageration but that's what it ultimately boils down to since they're not willing to increase taxes on business nor, for the most part, reduce military spending.
The second phase of the TEA Party were the political scum-sucking leaches like Dick Armey and his Tea Party Express Group. Dick Armey used to be a Republican Congressman and, if I recall correctly, the party whip in Congress. His group, and several others were the Republicans and Corporate America's first step in hijacking the Tea Party movement. For the most part, they've been succesful. It's no coincidence that the Tea Party has joined the Republicans in Congress and there are no Tea Partiers caucusing with Democrats. Is it because the Republicans have had more conservative fiscal policies in recent years? Hardly.
The TEA Party now has evolved into the right wing arm of the Republican Party. So in essense, they are the right wing of the right wing of the government of the United States. As a result, their platform has changed from being primarily based around fiscal policy to stretching to include the traditional Republican social policies. There are still some 'original' fiscal TEA Party folks around, some of them even in Congress, but for the most part they have fallen in step as extreme Republicans.
So in essense, the TEA Party now represents, by in large those that believe that:
-there should be fewer government services and the social safety net should be reduced for people who are not in a position to help themselves. The largest governement expense (military) should not be touched.
-businesses should receive lower taxes in order to create jobs. For the record, in 2009 the worlds largest company, Exxon Mobile, payed $0 dollars in taxes in the US even though that is where they are headquartered and where many of their operations are.
-the US government should be responsible for nothing much beyond protecting the borders
-the states should have greater rights to create their own laws. A recent example of this is the labour issue in Wisconsin. Another example being TEA Party darling Rand Paul suggesting that businesses should be able to decide who they serve to the point that they could refuse service to a customer based on race, religion, color, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
-no compromise on their beliefs regardless of the outcome (ie. the current budget and possible government shutdown which could in turn cripple the US and subsequent world economy)
-and other stuff
So, there is nothing really inherently wrong with the Tea Party if you agree with their platform. I happen to be more centrist on the political scale and as result I find many of their politics and policies to be far too extreme. If you are a very right leaning person then you will probably agree with their position. My biggest concern with the whole movement, however, is that it stopped being a movement, became another tool for propoganda, and has pulled the entire government further to the right than they already where. My personal preference is somewhere in the middle which is why I find what they're doing unpalatable.
Sorry about the length.
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The of and to a in is I that it for you was with on as have but be they
Last edited by Red Slinger; 04-07-2011 at 11:03 AM.
Reason: grammar good is
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I don't really follow US politics that much, but I find too many people accept this small "l" liberal myth that if you vote fiscally right of center, you are small minded and ignorant.
I think it is the same on both sides, your quote could just have easily said:
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I don't really follow US politics that much, but I find too many people accept this small "c" conservative myth that if you vote fiscally/socially left of center, you are a tree-hugging socialist.
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“Such suburban models are being rationalized as ‘what people want,’ when in fact they are simply what is most expedient to produce. The truth is that what people want is a decent place to live, not just a suburban version of a decent place to live.”
I would mortgage my house and suggest that the VAST majority of tea partiers are nothing more than middle class citizens....far from the "older rich white" that you suggest.
A poll is cited by Bloomberg to obtain the results noted, and is the most current with the article by Bloomberg just four days ago. The poll not only presents the results but cites its margin of error and the details of that poll. The poll of 1,002 U.S. adults was conducted March 19-22 by Selzer & Co. of Des Moines, Iowa. The results had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points. What Bloomberg observes from the poll is this:
"Tea Party supporters are likely to be older, white and male. Forty percent are age 55 and over, compared with 32 percent of all poll respondents; just 22 percent are under the age of 35, 79 percent are white, and 61 percent are men. Many are also Christian fundamentalists, with 44 percent identifying themselves as “born-again,” compared with 33 percent of all respondents."
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I'm fine with the Tea Party as a grass roots movement that actually has some principles. Paul supporters, for example, are people I respect. I'd love to have a right wing party in the United States that wasn't corrupt. I wouldn't vote for them, but at least they are interested in making the United States better as a country.
But the Tea Party has been largely co-opted by big business and is just more of the same. Not policy that actually promotes small government, rather policy that promotes the rich attaining more power and wealth. It's just the right wing of the Republican Party, virtually indistinguishable now from the party as a whole.
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As you can see, I'm completely ridiculous.
Maybe I'm a lefty nut but this is the way I see it:
To me it seems like the Tea Party is actually an invention of a small number of extremely wealthy and powerful people, for example the Koch family who are using fear and hate-mongering to whip a certain segment of the population, mainly lower middle-class white people with less education into a mob which they then use to further their own interests. Their propaganda machine (80% of Fox News' programming) stirs it up by adding a racist/xenophobic undercurrent to the whole thing (the birther movement, for example.) The recent events in Wisconsin really made me think something actually sinister was going on, specifically the disgusting attack on public education and teachers. The Tea Party is largely made up of the kind of people who are very likely to get hurt by the very politics and ideology they are pushing for so vigorously, but meanwhile the Ivy League educated, tax evading, draft dodging rich old white guys pulling the strings have everything to gain by it.
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A poll is cited by Bloomberg to obtain the results noted, and is the most current with the article by Bloomberg just four days ago. The poll not only presents the results but cites its margin of error and the details of that poll. The poll of 1,002 U.S. adults was conducted March 19-22 by Selzer & Co. of Des Moines, Iowa. The results had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points. What Bloomberg observes from the poll is this:
"Tea Party supporters are likely to be older, white and male. Forty percent are age 55 and over, compared with 32 percent of all poll respondents; just 22 percent are under the age of 35, 79 percent are white, and 61 percent are men. Many are also Christian fundamentalists, with 44 percent identifying themselves as “born-again,” compared with 33 percent of all respondents."
Interesting read, thanks for doing the legwork on that.
Well, they are hypocrites, considering they supposedly support less government intervention, but are against gay marriage and such.
But, the idea of controlling spending and trying to be fiscally responsible seems to be lost on the American government in general, and I have no idea what will make them understand it again.
Because of the repeated years of mismanagement of funds and the inability to try and properly run a variety of social programs, you're at the point where you simply have to cut spending and try to start managing your budget better.
I think the US in general have ignored this for a long time, not to mention the inability to properly regulate the financial industry, and this has lead to some massive problems. Massive massive problems.
Result? The Tea Party.
I actually find it quite amusing. I think the US 100% deserves all the loonies that are coming out of the woodwork and are being listened to.
And they'll continue deserving it just as long as the big, rich and powerful have control of Washington.
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I'm listening to Bill Maher in the mornings now and he had one of the Tea Party leaders on his show. He asked her what she would cut. Military was right out. Bill pointed out that the world's largest air force is the US Air Force, followed by the US Navy. She was steadfast... not touching the military... it maybe even should be increased. Okay, medicare? No. Can't touch that. I guess there are too many seniors in the Tea Party. Social Security? Can't touch that either.
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A recent New York Times/CBS poll reveals some interesting information about the movement and its fundamental “principles.” According to this poll, 91% of Tea Partiers want a smaller government with fewer services. Despite this hostility to big government, 62% of Tea Partiers believe that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are worth the cost
I'm listening to Bill Maher in the mornings now and he had one of the Tea Party leaders on his show. He asked her what she would cut. Military was right out. Bill pointed out that the world's largest air force is the US Air Force, followed by the US Navy. She was steadfast... not touching the military... it maybe even should be increased. Okay, medicare? No. Can't touch that. I guess there are too many seniors in the Tea Party. Social Security? Can't touch that either.
Yeah, this is why Tea Party members are being completely dishonest about their desire for a balanced budget. The US could cut every single program except Social Security, Defense, Medicare, and Medicaid to near-zero funding levels and the federal government would still have a budget deficit.
If the American people are serious about balancing their budget and eventually paying down their debt, they have to do it by some combination of the following, all of which Tea Party members refuse to do:
1. Increase taxation (or even let the Bush tax cuts expire and return to 2001 levels)
2. Reduce military spending
3. Reduce Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid entitlements
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Yeah, this is why Tea Party members are being completely dishonest about their desire for a balanced budget. The US could cut every single program except Social Security, Defense, Medicare, and Medicaid to near-zero funding levels and the federal government would still have a budget deficit.
If the American people are serious about balancing their budget and eventually paying down their debt, they have to do it by some combination of the following, all of which Tea Party members refuse to do:
1. Increase taxation (or even let the Bush tax cuts expire and return to 2001 levels)
2. Reduce military spending
3. Reduce Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid entitlements
I think the increase in taxation is easily done by tweaking the system to still allow breaks for the middle class, but tax the upper class more in certain areas. A fair tax would work great.
Reducing entitlements has to be done across the board. I don't think the US has a choice anymore. Sucks, because the lower class will suffer, but the separation of the classes has really increased, and as a result the lower class is worse off, with social programs that are bloated, but not sufficient enough.
I have a couple issues with them. First of all, as other people have said, they're not the grassroots movement that they MAY have once been, but a group of people being led around by cynical right wing Republicans.
But really, my main issue is with the fact that they only appeared once Obama was President. If they're really a government fearing group, where were they when the Department of Homeland Security was created, or No Child Left Behind, or the Patriot Act? Where were they when Bush bailed out Wall Street? Apparently those things weren't a problem. There's also the fact that despite being "taxed enough already" taxes are lower now than practically any time in history. The top bracket during Eisenhower's term (a Republican) was 91%! Yet the 35% top rate now is socialism...
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