Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

To restate:

The Peace Bridge is being built under a fixed price contract. The only way more money gets paid out is to change the scope of work. Improper welds is not a change in the scope of work.

This project will not and cannot cost taxpayers more money by having delays.

Any possibility of financial penalties being included in that contract?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Any possibility of financial penalties being included in that contract?

to the contractor? There could be, but I doubt the city would have written such clauses into a contract such as this.

On a contract like this, contractors would just add delay cost penalties into their bids, since it's such a complex job. THere's no real financial damage to the city if the project is delayed.

For a project like the airport tunnel, there will definitely be some penalty for delays. That project will be dead simple though. Large, but simple. The peace bridge is small but complex.

[TylerSVT]

What a joke... We cant even get a bridge built properly in this city...

I bet Japan rebuilds their entire coast line before we get a ring road... No wonder North America is so ####ed.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Barnes

In other bridge news, the St Patricks island bridge design was approved today. $20MM and designed by a Frenchman. Oh the humanity.

Sure, but that one's totally lame.

[burn_this_city]

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but didnt Calavantra insist the components were fabricated in Spain so he could keep an eye on the quality?

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

To restate:

The Peace Bridge is being built under a fixed price contract. The only way more money gets paid out is to change the scope of work. Improper welds is not a change in the scope of work.

This project will not and cannot cost taxpayers more money by having delays.

O, if only life were so black and white, there'd be no need for lawyers or litigation.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but didnt Calavantra insist the components were fabricated in Spain so he could keep an eye on the quality?

Canada Pop: 34.5 million
GDP: $1.56 trillion

Spain Pop: 46 Million
GDP: $1.37 trillion

Good thing the bridge is being constructed in such a more advanced, technological country. But it does help the high income population in the area get across the river without having to take one of the other bridges that's a 10 minute walk in either direction. Thank goodness for that.

I hate this damn bridge, I'm making a vow never to walk on it out of principle.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but didnt Calavantra insist the components were fabricated in Spain so he could keep an eye on the quality?

I'm not even going to touch on the crazy person's post above me; but no, IIRC the lowest bid on the structure was from a company that planned to have it pre-fabbed in Spain; nothing to do with Caltrava, dude has bigger projects and things to do than oversee some rinky dink bridge for Calgary.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but didnt Calavantra insist the components were fabricated in Spain so he could keep an eye on the quality?

No I don't think that's the case. The fabrication contract was tendered and, there were a number of bids including a couple or three from Canada and the Spaniards. There were probably a few more but I can't recall from where.

The Spanish bid was the lowest.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I'm not even going to touch on the crazy person's post above me;

awww, why not?

[frinkprof]

Honestly, as a supporter of this project, this setback is a disappointment and I think it's a shame that there's been so much controversy surrounding it.

I support the project for the following reasons:

- River crossings are essential in a city of the size Calgary is and the size it is growing to be, especially when the busiest area of the city abuts the river. If it's not an absolute need today, it's inevitable that more will be needed.

- Given the heavy use (and at times, overuse) of the nearby pedestrian bridges and their difficulty with safely and efficiently handling a mix of walking and cycling users, a new pedestrian crossing should be somewhere in that area.

- Paying a little extra on a project to have it look unique, stand out, and be aesthetically pleasing to a lot of people is important once in awhile.

Given the problems with handling (the attention they received being grossly disproportionate, but problems nonetheless), and now coupled with legitimate delays, I think it's a shame that such an important piece of infrastructure (given the above) has been flubbed to this extent. I still think it will be great to see it built and in operation. I also still think that it's weird to 'hate' the project, but I just find that it's a shame that the combination of legitimate screw-ups and setbacks, combined with intense media attention have soured people who would otherwise not care or be neutral on the subject.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

No I don't think that's the case. The fabrication contract was tendered and, there were a number of bids including a couple or three from Canada and the Spaniards. There were probably a few more but I can't recall from where.

The Spanish bid was the lowest.

My concern is why did the bid go out to Spain? I highly doubt Spain is up to speed on all of the CSA and OHS requirements for structural assemblies.

We run into this all the time my job. The low bidder states they are well aware of the Canadian requirements and then when fabrication starts they dont know SFA.

Also, since this has shipped I would suggest that claim there would be no cost over runs are bull. I am pretty sure they won't ship the bridge back to Spain to have the welds fixes, so that means they will have to sub-contract out the weld repair and subsequent testing to a local facility. Something that was not in the original contract.

These cost will somehow find their way back to the owner of the bridge (the tax payers). I work for a large oil and gas company and the costs pretty much always find their way back to us and I am pretty sure our legal department is better than the cities legal department.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

My concern is why did the bid go out to Spain? I highly doubt Spain is up to speed on all of the CSA and OHS requirements for structural assemblies.

We run into this all the time my job. The low bidder states they are well aware of the Canadian requirements and then when fabrication starts they dont know SFA.

Also, since this has shipped I would suggest that claim there would be no cost over runs are bull. I am pretty sure they won't ship the bridge back to Spain to have the welds fixes, so that means they will have to sub-contract out the weld repair and subsequent testing to a local facility. Something that was not in the original contract.

These cost will somehow find their way back to the owner of the bridge (the tax payers). I work for a large oil and gas company and the costs pretty much always find their way back to us and I am pretty sure our legal department is better than the cities legal department.

So true, we have the same problems all the time. That why when the bids come in at work, we drop the high and low bidder and decide between the middle guys.

[Jimmy Stang]

If the city went with anyone but the lowest bidder, people would be on their backs (more than they were/are already) about not having it made as cheaply as possible. If they do go with the lowest bidder, people will say "well you shouldn't have cheaped out". Kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[CaptainCrunch]

I will admit that I never liked this bridge, I didn't like the procurement process, and I don't like the design, thinking that its not one of Calavantra's better or even good efforts.

I also did research on his bridges that he's designed and been un-impressed that they've for the most part been over budget or in the case of the one in Dallas a badly flawed designed where somehow they didn't take into account where the bridge was to be built.

And then when I bought up in debate that I didn't like that this bridge had to be constructed in Spain, and then transported across the ocean and across Canada, I was shouted down that we couldn't do this kind of work in Canada and it had to happen this way. Well apparently the Spanish couldn't do this work.

And if you don't think that there won't be cost recovery for the manufacturer or contractor if they have to come over here and re-weld I think your fooling yourself, there won't be a specific line item in the budget about fixing the peace bridge, but it will come out of the budget.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

If the city went with anyone but the lowest bidder, people would be on their backs (more than they were/are already) about not having it made as cheaply as possible. If they do go with the lowest bidder, people will say "well you shouldn't have cheaped out". Kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

But thats the problem, there was nothing in this process that was lowest bidder. They merely accepted the design and the conditions that went with getting it built.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But thats the problem, there was nothing in this process that was lowest bidder. They merely accepted the design and the conditions that went with getting it built.

I believe it was just the design that didn't go out to tender. I believe the contruction contract (won by Graham) and Structure contract (won by El-Esteel Espania Limitado) went to tender.


There are a few key issues with the bridge and the process behind it, but the majority of opponents to the bridge just use buzzwords and issues pushed by the media hype against it.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I believe it was just the design that didn't go out to tender. I believe the contruction contract (won by Graham) and Structure contract (won by El-Esteel Espania Limitado) went to tender.


There are a few key issues with the bridge and the process behind it, but the majority of opponents to the bridge just use buzzwords and issues pushed by the media hype against it.

Yes, the construction contract was tendered. Graham was the lowest bid. The febricator has a contract with Graham.

Again, improper welds do not change the scope of the project, and thus there will not be a change order to cover the cost. I highly HIGHLY doubt that Graham is going to get extra money out of the city.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I believe it was just the design that didn't go out to tender. I believe the contruction contract (won by Graham) and Structure contract (won by El-Esteel Espania Limitado) went to tender.


There are a few key issues with the bridge and the process behind it, but the majority of opponents to the bridge just use buzzwords and issues pushed by the media hype against it.

Buzzwords? How about "buzzphrases"

-Financial quagmire
-Waste of money
-Dizzying waste of taxpayer money
-Needlessly expensive bridge


Damn media. If only not for them I would have been completely behind this waste of taxpayer money.

[nik-]

I still don't see the problem with going to an internationally renowned designer to get a bridge done. At some point can't you just look at someone's body of work and decide you want something from them for a public piece?