The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

Its interesting to compare the behaviour of the winnipeg fans here with the behaviour of the Kansas City and Oklahoma fans, they always polite and quiet, you never hear them gloating or putting down other cities.

In fact sometimes they are so quiet you might almost think they don't exist.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by troutman

Let's not tar all of Jets Nation for the actions of a couple of hundred internet trolls.

To be fair, most of those are the same guy who keeps registering a new user name after getting banned.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

And now, more or less, the same thing is happening in Glendale, so it's a moot point. The only guy who wants to keep the team there wants to do so with money he doesn't have, and the fans haven't supported the team well enough to deserve one.

Agreed. My purpose in this thread is not to defend Phoenix. I think it is a failed market, and the damage Balsillie would have done to league control and placement of teams notwithstanding, would have loved to have seen a renegade owner on the Leafs doorstep. Entertainment factor would have been high!

I've said in the past that I think Winnipeg is the best sports city in Canada, but I've also said it is the best minor league sports city. Financially, I don't think Winnipeg makes sense in the long term, but it would have been much easier to support them if the Jetsowners weren't what they are.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

I actually agree with you, but I also think you'll find most people who remembered and watched the Jets are not the same as the trolls on Jetsowner or here. Most of us just love hockey, picked up new teams and carried on. If hockey came back here we would embrace it and it would be awesome. Winnipeg failed for a variety of reasons, the Free Press did an excellent story 5 years ago about the last year of the Jets and what happened for them to fail and why the Save The Jets campaign failed.

The one thing I can't stand the most is in fact that Jetsowner site, not only are most of the people on there too young to have even seen a Jets game, they examine every minute statement as if Gary Bettman and Phoenix were the Da Vinci Code.

Do I think the NHL would work in Winnipeg? Yes, with this ownership I do. That being said if it doesn't happen I will continue to follow the roller coaster ride of being a Flames fan.

[TorqueDog]

The Jetsowner.com guy is an imbecile, there is no defending him. He or one of his minions trolled another forum I frequent for quite a while until he was banned (for a completely unrelated incident).

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Agreed. My purpose in this thread is not to defend Phoenix. I think it is a failed market, and the damage Balsillie would have done to league control and placement of teams notwithstanding, would have loved to have seen a renegade owner on the Leafs doorstep. Entertainment factor would have been high!

I've said in the past that I think Winnipeg is the best sports city in Canada, but I've also said it is the best minor league sports city. Financially, I don't think Winnipeg makes sense in the long term, but it would have been much easier to support them if the Jetsowners weren't what they are.

I'll admit, I loved the idea of the Hamilton team and I still do. Pissing in the Leafs' cornflakes, and the birth of another Canadian team are two things I can always get behind.

Thing about Winnipeg is this: there's an ownership group in place willing to use their own money to buy and operate this team. Not to discount yours or anyone else's opinion, but it doesn't matter who else thinks that the market is able to support an NHL team, because these guys want one, they have the money for one and - given their history - they've got the business acumen to make it work. That's the biggest piece of the puzzle that Phoenix does not have, and it's only because of delusional Phoenix fans on the other side like Bouw 'n' Arrow that you get this less palatable flavour of 'Jetsowners' out of the woodwork as you describe. Fight fire with fire, right? And I'll freely admit I'm probably antagonizing him a bit more than he deserves, though every post he makes only seems to justify the torment.

Some context: I was born in Winnipeg, raised on the Jets, converted to the Flames for the 96-97 season and onward. I'll be thrilled and delighted for Winnipeg to have a team back, but I'm still a Flames fan and I hope we kick their ass in every game we play them.

[Mazrim]

@wyshynski Greg Wyshynski


Shoalts w/ a Glendale/Goldwater update. GWI using NYY parking figures a little odd, given Glendale ain't exactly Bronx.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1965283/

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

@wyshynski Greg Wyshynski


Shoalts w/ a Glendale/Goldwater update. GWI using NYY parking figures a little odd, given Glendale ain't exactly Bronx.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1965283/

Proof of what everyone against the deal has always suspected:

"Like the plan in Glendale, parking revenue around Yankee Stadium is supposed to cover the bond payments. But it is not working out that way.
Sitren said in her report the Yankees’ parking revenue is 40 per cent below projections. According to her, the Yankees could not even cover as much as $1.5-million of the annual $7-million in bond payments. And the company that handles the parking owes the city $17-million in back rent and taxes.
Considering the millions of fans the Yankees draw each season and that on a good night a Coyotes crowd might number 14,000, that is not a promising indicator for Glendale’s bonds."

[troutman]

Glendale should learn from New York's mistake
http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/5890

Prospects for Glendale taxpayers could be far worse. In addition to floating bonds backed by parking revenues--and sales tax if parking fees fall short--the city would pay the Coyotes $97 million over five years for the team to operate the city-owned hockey arena. This is all on top of the $180 million bond debt the city is still paying from building the arena in 2003. The Coyotes, whose attendance rates are among the worst in the league, could leave Glendale taxpayers in debt to the tune of $340 million, according to the Arizona Republic.

The deal has not yet closed, and the city still has time to restructure it so taxpayers don’t end up footing the bill. New York’s investment has proven unwise. Glendale officials should not repeat history.

Carrie Ann Sitren is an attorney for the Scharf-Norton Center for Constitutional Litigation at the Goldwater Institute.

[afc wimbledon]

Not sure why anyone would drive to a Yankees game, you take the subway.
Really a dumb comparison.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Not sure why anyone would drive to a Yankees game, you take the subway.
Really a dumb comparison.

Did anyone else hear a 'whoosh' while reading this post?

[tjinaz]

Wow... that is beyond reaching. A highly dense city of 468sq miles where few own cars and public transit has been in place for 100 years vs one that covers over 1000sq miles that just put in limited light rail 2 yrs ago and everyone drives everywhere.

Makes total sense why GWI would find this comparison useful

[Resolute 14]

Agreed, but Yankee Stadium holds over twice the capacity and hosts twice as many games. Not to mention that I'm willing to bet the Yankees charge a hell of a lot more to park than Glendale could get away with.

It is just a terrible comparison both ways.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Agreed, but Yankee Stadium holds over twice the capacity and hosts twice as many games. Not to mention that I'm willing to bet the Yankees charge a hell of a lot more to park than Glendale could get away with.

This makes it a far more palatable comparison, IMHO. Sheer volume of people, number of games played at home, and price to park.

In any case, the idea that parking will cover the bond is a joke.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

This makes it a far more palatable comparison, IMHO. Sheer volume of people, number of games played at home, and price to park.

In any case, the idea that parking will cover the bond is a joke.

Unless you also go to the step of comparing the details of the bond issue it's a moronic point. It's like saying a tomato and red delicious apple are similar things without taking a bite of either one. Some surface similarities but completely different things in reality. In this situation the surface similarities aren't even close, this is more like a tomato to a watermelon.

Apologies for the fruit analogies, couldn't think of anything less ridiculous.

[MacGruber]

I cant wait for all the hillarious April Fools day threads tomorrow about the Jets being back and Bettman resigning etc.

Good times.

[Jordan!]

Jerry Reinsdorf is back in the game. Interesting.. May is the drop dead month

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Jerry Reinsdorf is back in the game. Interesting.. May is the drop dead month

Any emergence of Reinsdorf at this stage would be to move the team to Kansas City in my opinion. It's not like he's going to put more of his money in than Hulsizer is currently.

[Dogbert]

Of course they'll bring back Reinsdorf. Gary and Friends will sell that team to a random off the street if they have to. Anything to avoid letting it move, like it should have years ago.

[Underdog]

A Reinsdorf purchase & move is a better decision than leaving it where it is and gifting it to Hulsizer. Even if it is a move to Kansas City, at least the market will be fresh and the team won't be saddled with any baggage. Plus, a deep pocketed owner and sweetheart arena deal should get the franchise off to a good start financially while they build a fanbase.

[troutman]

Pho -> kc ?

Atl -> win ?