Career Choices and Regrets..

[tripin_billie]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

The thing with undergrad degrees is that you learn a lot of conceptual topics on a broad range. You won't use 80% of what you learn. Instead, you'll be focused on that other 20% and developing it in your career. Does it help to have knowledge of that other 80%? Absolutely. But really, if you never use it, you lose it. And then you're pretty much back on the same level as someone who didn't go through the undergrad program, but in a similar role as you at your company.

Yeah, where I am, DC metro area, 50% of the adult population has an undergraduate degree while 25% has a graduate or professional degree. I'm in that 25%, and I have a good, stable job, it just isn't in the field I want to be in, it is close, but no cigar. I'm still young (26), so I'm hoping to be able to get some experience and then be able to make a move. Luckily, I work for an employer that I has basically every job under the moon (Federal Government), so there are good chances to get jobs that are more interesting.

Dream job would be model/ design shop at the Smithsonian Institute, however, I would be happy with any librarian position across the government (have a Master of Library Science).

[Phanuthier]

Without a doubt, post-secondary education is important in this day and age. Saying you don't need post-secondary is like saying you don't need a high school degree in the 80's. And going to post-secondary doesn't mean its a life time commitment, many people change their degree numerous times, and you learn what you want and don't want to do by taking some classes. Going into university, I thought I wanted to do Chem Engg cause I loved chem in high school. Realized in 1st year that ChemE wasn't what I wanted to do, so I went into EE on a whim. In 2nd year, I thought I'd be interested in Biomed or Control Systems, 3rd year was electromagnetics, 4th year was photonics and device physics, then 1 month before I graduated, it was circuit design... even in my masters, I went in thinking I'd go digital, but ended up in analog. Now in my 1st job, I'm in a new grad rotation program in both memory (digital) and analog (among others).

Thats not to say all the electromagnetics and plasma physics and nanotechnology courses didn't help, it certainly did. A lot of transferable skills besides knowledge and facts.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Titan

An excellent book that, in part, discusses the school/work question is Rich Dad/Poor Dad. I quite enjoyed it and wish I had read it when I was 16. I definately followed the Poor Dad path and am way over educated and under asseted. He also has a neat take on what is an "asset". Basically, if it pays you then it is an asset. If it needs to be paid for it is an expense. Your car is a classic example. It is generally considered an asset but in their view it is just an expense. If you rent your car out then it becomes an asset. A neat book and my kids will be reading it when they are older.

Make sure they read this as well: http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Good Lord.

Your original statement has no qualifications. Therefore, your assertion is that banks never, ever give out loans to people who don't finish high school who also have criminal records or have poor credit.

Obviously this isn't true, since I'm fairly sure there's been at least one person out there in the world that fits your criteria and has gotten money loaned to them by what you consider to be a bank.

Sure thing boss. Not disputing it's never happened as I'm sure it probably has. But You're using Bill Gates as an example, and unless there's proof he did take a bank loan, then I just don't think that's a good example. Besides, he as a university drop-out, not a high-school drop-out.

[Buff]

I didn't immediately go to school after high school. I had no clue what I wanted to do. I wasn't ready to grow up. So I spent the first semester upgrading a couple of poor marks in my grade 12 classes. Then I didn't do a thing from February to September, not even work. I just hung out with friends. I had applied to go to school in the fall, I thought I liked playing with numbers so I'll try to become an accountant.

I found out right away that I wasn't keen on accounting afterall, but I like some of my marketing classes so I was going to go that route. Like accounting, I quickly saw that I wasn't going to be putting this education into use in the work world, at least not for very long. I finished up my schooling nonetheless and I got a job in retail after I graduated.

Worked retail for a couple of years and I finally got my break to get into management. Went home, did some research, and decided to go back to school. I was going to learn to do what I always liked, and what always came naturally to me. I was going to become a computer geek... well, a computer geek with a piece of paper.

Back to school I went, at the age of 26. Even then I switched up what I wanted to do. I thought I was going to develop software. My first job was working for a now defunct company that was a one-stop shop for all your IT needs. We developed software, websites, fixed computers, and did network and desktop support for clients. Through that job I realized that I was more into the IT support than sitting at a PC coding all day. The company as struggling so I got a different job and 5 years later I'm now the head of the IT department. For the most part, I love my job. I was put into a management position sooner than I wanted to. I wanted a few years of just doing IT, but now I have to combing IT with management duties too. Which is fine, I wanted to be where I am, not as soon as I got here, but I just have to adapt.

I have no regrets with my career path. I love my job, I love my life. I can't complain about where I am, thus I can't complain about the path i took to get where I am.

[Hanni]

I sometimes regret not finishing University. I took a year off after being there for 2 to do some other things and figure it all out as I was not happy with what I was doing. I ended up with a good job, making more than I would have with what I was taking in school. I do use some of the stuff I took in school but not most of it.

I also realize that I am very fortunate to have a boss who was willing to take a chance on me and give me the opportunity for advancement after only a couple years. So in no way would I say post-secondary isn't important.

The important thing to find something you enjoy, not just go to university because it is what you are "suppose" to do. Or stick with a major because you're embarrassed to tell your parents you were wrong about what you wanted to do (or for any other reason). Which was a huge concern of mine at 20 years old, but my parents were great about it.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Sure thing boss. Not disputing it's never happened as I'm sure it probably has. But You're using Bill Gates as an example, and unless there's proof he did take a bank loan, then I just don't think that's a good example. Besides, he as a university drop-out, not a high-school drop-out.

Gee, I was just trying to use the picture for humourous effect.

I'm glad to see you realized you were wrong though

[tripin_billie]

Also, to anyone on here thinking about going back to school, but are concerned with the costs, you might try looking at Freie Universität Berlin. They now have degree programs that are entirely in English and I think tuition is dirt cheap, even for non-EU citizens. I read an article about it recently but couldn't find the link.

Something to think about.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Gee, I was just trying to use the picture for humourous effect.

I'm glad to see you realized you were wrong though

Hence the word 'hypothetical.' I was never wrong. Going back to the original statement, it was about how creative people with no education get bank loans. It would be stupid to assume it never happened, but it would also be stupid to assume that they don't look at your background.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by tripin_billie

Also, to anyone on here thinking about going back to school, but are concerned with the costs, you might try looking at Freie Universität Berlin. They now have degree programs that are entirely in English and I think tuition is dirt cheap, even for non-EU citizens. I read an article about it recently but couldn't find the link.

Something to think about.

Berlin is an amazing city, just so much fun.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Hence the word 'hypothetical.' I was never wrong. Going back to the original statement, it was about how creative people with no education get bank loans. It would be stupid to assume it never happened, but it would also be stupid to assume that they don't look at your background.

Well of course they look at your background. They also take a look at your background if you're an upstanding citizen and you're Mr. Burns.

[Finner]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Good Lord.

Your original statement has no qualifications. Therefore, your assertion is that banks never, ever give out loans to people who don't finish high school who also have criminal records or have poor credit.

Obviously this isn't true, since I'm fairly sure there's been at least one person out there in the world that fits your criteria and has gotten money loaned to them by what you consider to be a bank.

Be it business or a personal loan banks only care about a couple things:

Income
Credit History
Current Assets/Debts


Thats it. They don't care if you're a criminal, they don't care if you have a doctorate or never finished high school.

A high school dropout who works as a mechanic making 50k is just as likely as the guy with a graduate degree making 50k to qualify for a loan assuming same credit history and assets/liabilities.

On the small business side, what your business does plays a part in the loan they'll give. If they consider it a high risk industry then you could have slightly more trouble, but in all honesty it comes back to those above 3.

[MoneyGuy]

I regret not getting into the business I am now earlier. It's worked out astoundingly well for me but I didn't have the courage to strike out on my own until the middle of my working career.

[MickMcGeough]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

IMO,getting a post secondary education "to fall back on" is good advice for most people, and most certainly is not time wasted.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Your experience is not universally applicable. When were you in university? What did you take?

Of my class of computer science majors that I've kept in touch with, there's one doing sales, there's one teaching something unrelated, there's one working a low-level bank job, there's one fixing VLTs, two have gone back to school to take something entirely different, and only two are actual software developers.

Did the non-developers get something out of university? Absolutely. Did the return match the time and money investment? Not a chance.

Safety net? My buddy is fixing VLTs. Nobody gives a #### that he's got a degree.

I'm not trying to tell anyone to not go to university. It's just not the silver bullet that my parents' generation thinks it is.

When I'm hiring: demonstrable skills, attitude, and even cultural fit all trump education. In a lot of fields you can acquire those skills at university. In a lot, you can't (or at least don't have to).

Originally Posted by flamesfever

1. Failure in being successful, resulting in loss of self esteem, and the
attendant problems

2. Unintentional pregnancy and obligations, which makes it much harder
to go back to school

3. Losing the most creative and energetic time of your life, that could be
used to further your career. I believe a person's creativity peaks for
most careers sometime in their 20's or 30's

4. Falling in with the wrong crowd, etc.

Not going to university could result in loss of self esteem, pregnancy, and falling in with the wrong crowd? Are you for real?

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by Hanni

I sometimes regret not finishing University. I took a year off after being there for 2 to do some other things and figure it all out as I was not happy with what I was doing. I ended up with a good job, making more than I would have with what I was taking in school. I do use some of the stuff I took in school but not most of it.

I also realize that I am very fortunate to have a boss who was willing to take a chance on me and give me the opportunity for advancement after only a couple years. So in no way would I say post-secondary isn't important.

The important thing to find something you enjoy, not just go to university because it is what you are "suppose" to do. Or stick with a major because you're embarrassed to tell your parents you were wrong about what you wanted to do (or for any other reason). Which was a huge concern of mine at 20 years old, but my parents were great about it.

This is my current situation too. I headed straight to university right out of high school and did two years in Comms & Culture with the plan to head to law school afterwards. I probably should have dropped out after my first year, but I didn't want to disappoint my family so I decided to gut out a second year and see how things went. Nothing improved, so I came back to Camrose, switched into Biology with a plan to go into the Ag program at the U of A, and dropped out after a semester.

Now, I loved my time at university. I made some great friends in first year and I think it was a good thing for me to move away from home and be forced to live on my own. That being said, it cost a lot of money and if I would have been working from the day I got out of high school on, I would have earned roughly two hundred thousand bucks.

If I would have done the math then, I probably would have went to the patch straight after high school, but I didn't. I'm fortunate to come out of my little university experience without any debt, but it was still a pretty big waste of money and time.

I think there is too much pressure on kids to go to university right out of high school. I was in the top of my class all throughout my school career, but I just didn't have the desire to spend more time in a classroom. But all my teachers and my family were constantly bugging me about what school I was going to and what I was going to take and I finally just caved to the pressure. I should have just listened to my heart, but what can ya do.

Oh, I forgot to add this...Honestly, I don't think what kind of schooling you take has that big of an impact on what you do (some jobs notwithstanding of course). If you're willing to put your nose to the grindstone and get your ass into gear when it comes time to work, you'll be fine. Hell, I was just about poached off my rig by the consultants because of the way I was getting things done, and I've only been in the business since January. If you're a good hand, you'll be rewarded in whatever you do.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Finner

Be it business or a personal loan banks only care about a couple things:

Income
Credit History
Current Assets/Debts


Thats it. They don't care if you're a criminal, they don't care if you have a doctorate or never finished high school.

A high school dropout who works as a mechanic making 50k is just as likely as the guy with a graduate degree making 50k to qualify for a loan assuming same credit history and assets/liabilities.

On the small business side, what your business does plays a part in the loan they'll give. If they consider it a high risk industry then you could have slightly more trouble, but in all honesty it comes back to those above 3.

Not true at all, you should see what most banks are willing to give you if you've been accepted into a professional program like Medicine. You might argue its based on projected future income, but that projection is entirely based on the education.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by tripin_billie

Also, to anyone on here thinking about going back to school, but are concerned with the costs, you might try looking at Freie Universität Berlin. They now have degree programs that are entirely in English and I think tuition is dirt cheap, even for non-EU citizens. I read an article about it recently but couldn't find the link.

Something to think about.

And although I didn't do an exhaustive review, it would appear that the education would be internationally recognized......

That's a pretty amazing find, thanks.

[fundmark19]

Do you mean a professional student loan? Those are incredibly different then small buisness loan.

[tripin_billie]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

And although I didn't do an exhaustive review, it would appear that the education would be internationally recognized......

That's a pretty amazing find, thanks.

I think they are trying to carve out a niche for themselves in this market, so I'm sure accreditation and international recognition are key to their plans. If I had a soon to be university age child, I would be recommending it.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

I wasn't trying to say getting a degree isn't good it all depends on what you are going to do with it. From a banking side of things I used to work for one going to school for 4 years could put you behind someone who didn't and instead worked for that bank for 4 years. It was just one situation it really all depends what you want to do with your life.

Go to your local bank and see how many 40+ people are working with a degree at a job that pays 40-50k a year. Was it really worth it to go to school for 4 years in this scenerio when anyone can start working at a bank and make the same amount not holding a degree?

A better discussion would be to compare how those people with degrees progress in contradistinction to those without degrees, given the same scenario. I have an aunt who worked her way up from a teller to loftier bank positions, and she partly credits her University degree for giving her the upwards edge against rivals with similar skill sets, but no university degree.

A university degree won't guarantee you anything, but to suggest it does more harm than good is ludicrous.