Career Choices and Regrets..

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If you have an air tight business plan, banks will give you money.

As others have said in this thread, having a degree beyond HS gives you a leg up in future endeavors. The same is true for getting a bank to work with you. It's not impossible without a degree but that degree could be all the difference.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Even if, say, you are a high-school drop-out with a criminal record? Or with crappy personal credit?

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Pretty sure when you start a business the banks only look at the business plan, your personal credit is largely inconsequential. I could be wrong though, perhaps someone in business banking could chime in.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

As others have said in this thread, having a degree beyond HS gives you a leg up in future endeavors. The same is true for getting a bank to work with you. It's not impossible without a degree but that degree could be all the difference.

That largely depends on what kind of business you're trying to get funding for.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

That largely depends on what kind of business you're trying to get funding for.

Of course, I think that the business plan is the most important but a degree would show the bank that you at least have a bit of history in completing projects. Everyone should note that I am not in the banking or finance industry though so maybe I'm out to lunch.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Pretty sure when you start a business the banks only look at the business plan, your personal credit is largely inconsequential. I could be wrong though, perhaps someone in business banking could chime in.

They usually do ask for some sort of collateral, like your house.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's great, but did he get a bank loan?

Feel free to check Microsoft's balance sheet.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Feel free to check Microsoft's balance sheet.

You didn't answer my question. Did Bill Gates get a bank loan in 1975 to start Microsoft?

[lucky1]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I have found it odd so far how few people have described working for themselves. Traditional_Ale and Realtor 1 are two of the only ones I can think of in this thread that would count. I admit that I also work for an employer, but if things didn't work out I would at least have to consider self employment.

you have no idea how much of the oil patch is being staffed by contractors...self employed.
this is the hiring method of choice nowadays by many big firms such as suncor, syncrude, shell, etc etc......

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You didn't answer my question. Did Bill Gates get a bank loan in 1975 to start Microsoft?

You didn't qualify your statement.

In regards to your new question, seeing as how they had a few employees even back then and it's a huge PITA to operate a business without a LOC, yes, they probably had at least a LOC given to them by a bank.

[Sainters7]

Haha it looks like Gates is having a great time in that pic. I wonder what he did. Probably something I could figure out in 2 seconds with a quick Google search. Bah, no time..

[Clarkey]

Getting a degree is not just about having something to fall back on or some letters to pad your resume. It should develope you as a person, give you a broader outlook and make you knowledgeable about more areas.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Getting a degree is not just about having something to fall back on or some letters to pad your resume. It should develope you as a person, give you a broader outlook and make you knowledgeable about more areas.

And, you can have a hell of a lot more fun in University than you can working in a real job.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Shazam

You didn't qualify your statement.

In regards to your new question, seeing as how they had a few employees even back then and it's a huge PITA to operate a business without a LOC, yes, they probably had at least a LOC given to them by a bank.

The question was pretty clear. Not sure how it was difficult to understand what I was asking.

That said, I'll believe a bank loan when I see it. There could have been angel investors involved, or something else to that extent without going through a proper bank loan. To assume he did because of the company he started is still not enough evidence.

[fundmark19]

But it costs you 4 years of salary plus all of your tuition expenses. Hard to turn down 200,000 dollars assuming you get a 50k/year job

Say you go to school get a degree and get a job that pays 60 k a year say financial advisor at a bank it is going to take you 20 years if you stay in that role to recoupe that 200k while going to school

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

There is some bad advice in this thread.

If there was ever a day that you could say unequivocally "get a degree/diploma", that day is not today. There are plenty of fields where it's essential, but there are fields where universities and colleges have very little to offer, instruction-wise.

Investing four years of the prime of your life (and thousands of dollars) into getting an education so that you have something "to fall back on" is possibly the worst advice I've ever seen given.

Far better to spend that time traveling, exploring your interests, dedicating yourself to something you love (frivolous or not), etc. Figure out what makes you tick before investing those years into education, because once they're gone, they're gone for good.

I think ma-skis.com's advice is good. IMO,getting a post secondary education "to fall back on" is good advice for most people, and most certainly is not time wasted.

Doing some travelling before settling down, may be advantageous for some, particularly if you are too young and immature to be successful at higher education.

However I have seen young people wasting too much of their young life devoted to having fun, doing things like trying to be "rock stars", doing creative things that they have no formal training or education in, etc.

Some of the possible drawbacks in this sort of lifestyle include:

1. Failure in being successful, resulting in loss of self esteem, and the
attendant problems

2. Unintentional pregnancy and obligations, which makes it much harder
to go back to school

3. Losing the most creative and energetic time of your life, that could be used to further your career. I believe a person's creativity peaks for most careers somewhere between 35 and 45 years of age and even much younger for the most gifted.

4. Falling in with the wrong crowd, etc.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The question was pretty clear. Not sure how it was difficult to understand what I was asking.

That said, I'll believe a bank loan when I see it. There could have been angel investors involved, or something else to that extent without going through a proper bank loan. To assume he did because of the company he started is still not enough evidence.

Good Lord.

Your original statement has no qualifications. Therefore, your assertion is that banks never, ever give out loans to people who don't finish high school who also have criminal records or have poor credit.

Obviously this isn't true, since I'm fairly sure there's been at least one person out there in the world that fits your criteria and has gotten money loaned to them by what you consider to be a bank.

[Titan]

An excellent book that, in part, discusses the school/work question is Rich Dad/Poor Dad. I quite enjoyed it and wish I had read it when I was 16. I definately followed the Poor Dad path and am way over educated and under asseted. He also has a neat take on what is an "asset". Basically, if it pays you then it is an asset. If it needs to be paid for it is an expense. Your car is a classic example. It is generally considered an asset but in their view it is just an expense. If you rent your car out then it becomes an asset. A neat book and my kids will be reading it when they are older.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

But it costs you 4 years of salary plus all of your tuition expenses. Hard to turn down 200,000 dollars assuming you get a 50k/year job

Say you go to school get a degree and get a job that pays 60 k a year say financial advisor at a bank it is going to take you 20 years if you stay in that role to recoupe that 200k while going to school

You are making the erroneous assumption that the salary isnt going to increase over time, which is much more likely if you don't have a degree as you hit that "glass ceiling".

People can cite the odd person doing well without a degree all they want, but on the whole, there is a direct correlation between income earned and level of education.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

You are making the erroneous assumption that the salary isnt going to increase over time, which is much more likely if you don't have a degree as you hit that "glass ceiling".

People can cite the odd person doing well without a degree all they want, but on the whole, there is a direct correlation between income earned and level of education.

I wasn't trying to say getting a degree isn't good it all depends on what you are going to do with it. From a banking side of things I used to work for one going to school for 4 years could put you behind someone who didn't and instead worked for that bank for 4 years. It was just one situation it really all depends what you want to do with your life.

Go to your local bank and see how many 40+ people are working with a degree at a job that pays 40-50k a year. Was it really worth it to go to school for 4 years in this scenerio when anyone can start working at a bank and make the same amount not holding a degree?

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by lucky1

you have no idea how much of the oil patch is being staffed by contractors...self employed.
this is the hiring method of choice nowadays by many big firms such as suncor, syncrude, shell, etc etc......

I get that. I'm in the patch myself, and while I am not a contractor, I do work with some, and was one in the past.

What I'm surprised about is the fact that many seem to ignore the self-employed aspect, and that there is a growing consensus that education is everything. From my point of view, there are few educational paths that really, really pay out. Geology (my field), Engineering, Law, Medicine, Accounting... these are most of the well paying fields I can think of. In Calgary especially. Most other degrees, you do it if you are passionate about it. Then you turn that passion into a career you can be proud of.


The really ironic thing about those who are claiming that getting an education is key - and that it doesn't matter what the education is - is forgetting the first post. The OP DID get an education without realizing what it would entail, and is regretting that decision. This was followed by many, many people agreeing that they were in the same situation.

Then the conversation turned to "having anything to do with an education is key". Something is missing here.