The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by landshark

Goldwater is right to do anything in their power to block this nonsense... if this deal is so good, why does the financing have to come from Glendale? Why not a real lender? Why not? Because it is a bad investment - the team goes bankrupt again then whoever holds the loan paper is stuck with the debt. No one in their right mind would lend $100M to this sink hole. I have a hard time believing that it's getting serious consideration.

Ya I've got to think that the people lining up to buy these bonds are either zealots ideologically in agreement with Bettman, ie other owners, or they are more shady associates of his like "Boots".

Never would have imagined this would drag on into the last weeks of the season. It is going to be an absolute nightmare down there if they make the playoffs and are playing in front of 12 or 13K a night. I guess at least the Flames owners and everybody else will make some of their money back!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Absolutely if Hulsizer was to use the traditional practice of buying things with his own money we wouldnt even have this thread open anymore.

Hulsizer won't be foolish enough to do that because he knows the Coyotes have racked up 16 years of debt and so he wants the safety net of the Bonds covering a large portion of his purchase because of all the risk.

That same risk is why purchasing these bonds is a huge risk for anybody who choses to do so if the Coyotes continue to rack up debt and go bankrupt again.

The only instant solution here is for the NHL to give Hulsizer a huge discount.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Every step of the way so far, better? You and Bouw have had no qualms making overly confident statements about how this whole thing will play out, so why can't I?

... besides, so far I've been right and I don't claim to have any insiders.

Putting Bouw and Sydney Crosby's Hat on the same level is ridiculous. SCH has real information to draw his conclusions, it's just that things aren't working out the way the powers that be, want them to.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Putting Bouw and Sydney Crosby's Hat on the same level is ridiculous. SCH has real information to draw his conclusions, it's just that things aren't working out the way the powers that be, want them to.

[shrug] Wrong is wrong. I have real information with which to draw my conclusions too... only difference is my information is publicly available, as you can read about it in the paper every time there's a development in the story. The idea that providing a guarantee for the bonds that is $41 million shy of the actual risk involved would alleviate Goldwater's concerns is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The only instant solution here is for the NHL to give Hulsizer a huge discount.

The NHL would have approximately $240 million reasons to feel like idiots if they were forced to do that.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Hulsizer won't be foolish enough to do that because he knows the Coyotes have racked up 16 years of debt and so he wants the safety net of the Bonds covering a large portion of his purchase because of all the risk.

That same risk is why purchasing these bonds is a huge risk for anybody who choses to do so if the Coyotes continue to rack up debt and go bankrupt again.

The only instant solution here is for the NHL to give Hulsizer a huge discount.

I don't understand how he'd get the support of the owners to do that though, basically they will have to write off much of the money they have sunk into the Coyotes - to compete against their own businesses - when someone else out there is offering full price.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Atlanta. Winnipeg is the solution for Atlanta so Phoenix does not have a solution essentially. If folding the Thrashers is an option, the NHLPA needs the team to stay in Phoenix. If the NHL buying the Thrashers in as option, the NHL Board of Governors needs the team to stay in Phoenix.

The only other solutions would be Quebec City or Hamilton but they both have their problems, which probably couldn't be solved in time for next season.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Why would Winnipeg be the solution specifically for Atlanta as opposed to Phoenix?

It's that there's no other market ready for relocation and Phoenix is the only one of the two with a buyer (or should I say "buyer").

I wish Quebec was further along and then this thing would have been over a long time ago.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Putting Bouw and Sydney Crosby's Hat on the same level is ridiculous. SCH has real information to draw his conclusions, it's just that things aren't working out the way the powers that be, want them to.

Exactly. There's been a few attempts so far to end this thing from the Glendale/NHL side and they haven't gone the way they hoped. The first was the lawsuit and the latest was this offering which they hoped would lead to negotiations with Goldwater (and a final resolution) but it clearly hasn't.

There's going to be a couple more of these types of attempts before it's truly over. I don't think they'll truly pull the plug on Phoenix until late May (my opinion).

[Mazrim]

Another two months of this? Yikes...bad for all involved to drag this out even more than it has to be, IMO.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Another two months of this? Yikes...bad for all involved to drag this out even more than it has to be, IMO.

I'm just basing that on the fact that they were willing to go to late May last year, so why not this year? It's certainly not ideal for all the parties involved (True North, AHL, Canucks specifically).

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Another two months of this? Yikes...bad for all involved to drag this out even more than it has to be, IMO.

I look at it as entertainment which helps move my thoughts from the Flames situation. At least most of us aren't Phoenicians or Winnipegers.

[Calgary4LIfe]

When are they going to pull the plug? Phoenix has constantly lost money, and has a horrible fan base after so many years. This is not a NYI team, or another 'bottom of the barrel' team. They are a playoff team with few fans.

I understand that it would be great to grow the game in Arizona, and doubly serves Canadian fans who enjoy going down there for golf and the nice weather, and get to treat themselves to a nice game. However, when is enough.. enough?

Has the NHL done its' due diligence about doing everything it can to retain a team in a market, or have they gone over-board trying to make it work. The due diligence first and foremost is NOT to any single market or team. It is to the NHL as a whole. This is a winning product that they are icing, and they are doing it below the cap. Is spending more going to attract more fans? Is a serious and stable owner going to generate more of a fan base? Do they need a superstar to attract them?

It has been so long, I just don't know what is right or wrong anymore. It will suck for the those Phoenix fans if the team was to move, but this is a business, and the team has to generate a profit after 'x' amount of years or look to relocate and hope for better.

All these bonds and associations getting involved just seem overly complicated to me, and really stink of "Nobody thinks it will work but we are desperate". Sounds like people trying to make money off one another. Sounds like a community that has built a new building, and is scared to death that their tenant will move and leave them empty, so they want to throw good money after bad.

It sounds more and more like all of this is just prolonging the inevitable. I really believe that Phoenix is done having an NHL team. If they start selling out in the playoffs, and have a long and successful playoffs, MAYBE things will change. At this point, it looks pretty grim.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Exactly. There's been a few attempts so far to end this thing from the Glendale/NHL side and they haven't gone the way they hoped. The first was the lawsuit and the latest was this offering which they hoped would lead to negotiations with Goldwater (and a final resolution) but it clearly hasn't.

There's going to be a couple more of these types of attempts before it's truly over. I don't think they'll truly pull the plug on Phoenix until late May (my opinion).

I seem to recall during the time that Moyes put the team into bankruptcy that there was a "point-of-no-return" mentioned, where the franchise would absolutely need to know if the team was relocating or not in order for the league and the franchise to prepare operations in its new location.

Anyone happen to recall what that was approximately?

[OldSam]

^^^^ Three years ago. Ha. ha. ha. Ha.

Actually, I don't know. Bettman said he wanted the decision done by the end of 2010, I do remember that. I wonder which 2010 he meant?

Just finish it. But if I were an owner, I'd indicate to Bettman no more money to help these lost causes.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I'm just basing that on the fact that they were willing to go to late May last year, so why not this year? It's certainly not ideal for all the parties involved (True North, AHL, Canucks specifically).

Yeah, really the NHL isn't going to announce anything until the day after the 'Yotes are eliminated from the playoffs at the earliest. As the current owners of the team they have no reason to want to rush the team into lameduck status and make ticket sales any lower then they would otherwise be.

[Jordan!]

I think so long as Hulsizer is still pursuing, the NHL will sit and wait.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Just finish it. But if I were an owner, I'd indicate to Bettman no more money to help these lost causes.

What choice do the NHL owners have here really though...they ran off what turns out to be the only guy interested in the team who had cash in hand (relocation issues, ect).

They look to have a Winnipeg group teed up, but now have another struggling franchise to fix (Atlanta).

No doubt they want to recover their purchase price asap and also to protect franchise values. Neither allows for a discount on the purchase price. They're between a rock and a hard place.

Thinking ahead a bit, really what choices are on the table if the Hulsizer deal folds...continue to operate the franchise until new ownership can be found and bleed money, or suspend the franchise. Both terrible options for the NHL owners IMO.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by troutman

Explain.

The only reason I can think of is the US TV contract, which has never been worth that much to the NHL. League revenues would rise if the team moved to Winnipeg, the salary cap would go up, and players could be paid more, franchise values could increase. The NHLPA does not need the team to stay in Phoenix.

Someone more versed in legalese than me was saying something along the lines of that if the team leaves Phoenix - it opens a door somehow for Jim Basillie to have a case to sue them (NHL) and win. I'm sure someone on this board will have better insight into this if true.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

I think so long as Hulsizer is still pursuing, the NHL will sit and wait.

I agree, but they're not going to sit and wait forever. At some point, they have to start planning schedules, divisional matchups, etc for next season. If this whole debate between the GWI and the CoG keeps going, the NHL at some point, has to stand up and say 'enough is enough, the team is gone'.

No one has officially said the team will definitely move to Winnipeg if this deal falls through, so the city shouldn't be getting too hyped up. That being said, Winnipeg is the obvious frontrunner, and the most logical choice for relocation because they've got an arena and ownership group ready, and because the Coyotes as we all know, came from Winnipeg in the first place.

Personally, I think hockey in the desert is the dumbest idea ever, and I hope the team moves to Winnipeg for next season. But nothing is going to happen until the Phoenix Coyotes season ends, at the earliest. Whether thats the end of the regular season (if PHX go on a losing streak and miss the playoffs) or the day after the Coyotes are knocked out of the playoffs remains to be seen. It could even be dragged out until after the Stanley Cup Finals, or into the offseason.

The bottom line is, the GWI is not going to back down. But one thing to remember is, the GWI is not against keeping the team in Glendale. If MH buys the team with his own money, everything is solved, and the team stays in PHX. But if MH has even half a braincell, he's never going to do that. Thats why this thread exists at all..because MH is only willing to buy the team if his risk is low, or non-existent.

So unless MH or someone else emerges saying "I'm ready to pay full price for this team", then this debate will continue, until at some point in the playoffs or the offseason, Gary Bettman stands up and says 'enough is enough', and the NHL moves the team. Knowing Bettman, if this team does move to YWG, he's going to act all smug and say the whole relocation thing was a genius idea that he came up with.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

I think so long as Hulsizer is still pursuing, the NHL will sit and wait.

Question: When does the 25M that CoG have in the account to cover the teams losses (and probably get sued over?) come due? Or is there no specific date attached?