Libya headed for civil war? Update: Gadhafi dead - Page 13 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Gozer · 03-19-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So I'm confused, are you talking about the length of time that it took to arrive at this point?

Yes.

The Americans have a red light for pretty much any military operations outside their current few. I don't think I need to expand on that.

Knowing the Americans want to sit this one out, France or Germany or any other country should have been acting as soon as Gaddafi's violence started.
Not after a sit-down at the UN with America.

The reluctance to get involved suggests to me that they didn't want to go into Iraq for the same reasons these nations were slow to act on Libya. (not really sure what that reason is though, maybe they just don't want to fund the fight)

Am I off base on this?

HPLovecraft · 03-19-2011, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

Yes.

The Americans have a red light for pretty much any military operations outside their current few. I don't think I need to expand on that.

Knowing the Americans want to sit this one out, France or Germany or any other country should have been acting as soon as Gaddafi's violence started.
Not after a sit-down at the UN with America.

The reluctance to get involved suggests to me that they didn't want to go into Iraq for the same reasons these nations were slow to act on Libya. (not really sure what that reason is though, maybe they just don't want to fund the fight)

Am I off base on this?

France has been more than eager to get involved since the beginning of this conflict. Sarkozy was the first to acknowledge the Libyan National Council as the defacto representative of the country. In fact, they discussed with Britain a "bilateral" action against Ghaddafi if nothing could be come to with the UN. Germany, on the other hand, has been the exact opposite -- they've made their disagreement with any UN resolution known since the beginning.

The fact is that war against Muslim nations or Muslim regimes is a complicated thing in this day and age, and European nations simply do not have the capability these days to go to war alone.

sclitheroe · 03-19-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worth

It's probably pretty much impossible to muster 18 CF-18's now a days for an overseas mission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_...orce_equipment

6 CF-18's is probably sufficient...

HPLovecraft · 03-19-2011, 01:51 PM

Cruise missiles have been launched, likely against AA sites. Looks like it's about to begin.

T@T · 03-19-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

12 hours ago from @FMCNL on Twitter:

Not too sure about the P3 (perhaps he means the CP-140 Aurora?).

I have to say that is a pretty sweet fleet of RCAF aircraft.

It must be the Orion, made by Lockheed. big radar plane used to sniff out SAM's and Subs.

Acey · 03-19-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Libyan TV claims that airstrikes have hit civilian areas in the capital, Tripoli, but the report couldn't be independently confirmed - AP

peter12 · 03-19-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acey

You believe anything that the Gaddafi regime says??

Acey · 03-19-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

You believe anything that the Gaddafi regime says??

That's exactly my point.

Acey · 03-19-2011, 02:24 PM

'Operation Odyssey Dawn' is a bad ass name. They should have saved it for something cooler.

HPLovecraft · 03-19-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acey

'Operation Odyssey Dawn' is a bad ass name. They should have saved it for something cooler.

Isn't it a computer that randomly generates mission names? Pretty good name, nonetheless. They should use it to generate book and movie titles.

CaptainCrunch · 03-19-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

It must be the Orion, made by Lockheed. big radar plane used to sniff out SAM's and Subs.

The Aurora and Acturus are based on the P3 airframe. I doubt its the Aurora since we don't need to hunt subs over there.

The Arcturus is the same frame as the Aurora without the ASW equipment and weapons its made for surface and air combat control.

CaptainCrunch · 03-19-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Isn't it a computer that randomly generates mission names? Pretty good name, nonetheless. They should use it to generate book and movie titles.

Yeah, operation names are computer generated, but the words in the database are probably entered based on coolness factor.

I'm still waiting for operation rectal destruction.

CaptainCrunch · 03-19-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

Yes.

The Americans have a red light for pretty much any military operations outside their current few. I don't think I need to expand on that.

Knowing the Americans want to sit this one out, France or Germany or any other country should have been acting as soon as Gaddafi's violence started.
Not after a sit-down at the UN with America.

The reluctance to get involved suggests to me that they didn't want to go into Iraq for the same reasons these nations were slow to act on Libya. (not really sure what that reason is though, maybe they just don't want to fund the fight)

Am I off base on this?

Well its pretty clear that the American's are not sitting this one out as they certainly got in some major punches today, I also have no doubt that the American Airforce is contributing Command and Control coordination.

Red Ice Player · 03-19-2011, 03:17 PM

I believe the Dassault Rafales are already over Libya.

Bagor · 03-19-2011, 03:40 PM

British and French aircraft likely involved in the operation according to the BBC ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12785746

Cheese · 03-19-2011, 03:50 PM

hmmmm...why cant western forces, eg Canada, confiscate any decent warplanes/equipment from the Libyans after they cream the hell out of them in the next few weeks? Seems like a cheap way to get some of the things our army needs?

CaptainCrunch · 03-19-2011, 03:51 PM

Anyone else insulted that the CF-18 was listed as a french aircraft?

burn_this_city · 03-19-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Anyone else insulted that the CF-18 was listed as a french aircraft?

Aljazeera is giving us proper credit. For once we are listed ahead of the other countries in the story.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...243968135.html#

CaptainCrunch · 03-19-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

hmmmm...why cant western forces, eg Canada, confiscate any decent warplanes/equipment from the Libyans after they cream the hell out of them in the next few weeks? Seems like a cheap way to get some of the things our army needs?

They don't have anything that we would want.

The Canadian Leopard C2 tank is vastly superior to Libya's T-55 and T-72 tanks.

Canada's armored personal carriers and recce )LAAV and Coyote) vehicles are vastly superior to the Libyan 70's area BRD's and BMP-1 and BRD-1's

I would even take Canada's mobile anti air and artillary systems over Libya's.

The only thing that I would love to grab would be the MI-24 Hind helicopters, for some reason I really like their design concept.

HPLovecraft · 03-19-2011, 04:05 PM

Lol @ this woman on Al-Jazeera saying the West could have certainly negotiated with Ghaddafi to treat his people better. Yeah, they tried that, and he was outside a city of 1 million people declaring no mercy. Sorry, lady, sometimes the time comes when words aren't enough.